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D Skelton

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I've been invited by Mr Betts' office to attend Parliament on the 6th to sit on the panel at the next committee meeting enquiring into the effectiveness of self certification schemes!

I hope Parliamentary privileges extend to me, I am known for being rather outspoken! :D
 
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Within ANY system of qualifications -v- competence there are always issues. For example, how many people are there still alive and driving 'perfectly well' yet pre-date the driving test? They still have the same licence we all do, though.
 
Within ANY system of qualifications -v- competence there are always issues. For example, how many people are there still alive and driving 'perfectly well' yet pre-date the driving test? They still have the same licence we all do, though.

I agree, it would be silly for anyone to say that they could create the perfect system, that said, anything would be better than the situation we have now!
 
I wish you luck in parliament by the way . It is very simple for me . Either time served competency or apprentiship = Government licence to practice as an electrician . You do not require a certificate to test and inspect commercial or industrial I have done it for years and its slightly more complex than house bashing I think ( nothing against good house bashers by the way ) All the best
 
I would say that ideally a government run scheme needs to be put into place where the minimum standard of qualification to be deemed competent to work anywhere in the industry, domestic, commercial or industrial is NVQ3.
What's an NVQ? One can not cover all three sectors.

however renewal assessments would be made every three years instead of every one.
My employer assessed my work constantly in industry. No assessor can know every process.

I would introduce rules that meant that a large proportion of income for the scheme would have to be put towards raising public awareness of electrical safety and the importance of using a qualified electrician
How about the money going in to training apprentices.

and the penalties for not doing so.
Protectionism is how that will be seen.

I would make the complaints procedure easy for the consumer and ensure that nforcement was backed by statute, ie. you carry out pony work you get one chance to mend your ways and after that, if the standard of work doesn't improve your right to work as an electrician is stripped away from you for good.
You make a mistake, who’s going to see it? No one will know until the house has burnt down.

I would also recommend the introduction of an electricians licence, backed by statute. Legislation would then need to be introduced to restrict the purchasing of any electrical equipment bar the very essentials (plug tops, fuses, lamps etc...) to licenced electricians only. Practising unlicenced electrical work would have to be punishable by severe fines and/or imprisonment.
Get real

Those would be my recommendations, however, we have to realise that we don't live in an ideal world. Compromises would have to be made unfortunately.

The only way for this trade to go is by registration, it’s got to redeem itself somehow.

The down side, just a few things I can think of at the moment:

  • What to do with the incompetent DI’s etc. we don’t have enough fully qualified electricians.
  • The subsidies for training apprentices are inadequate.
  • Controlling substandard installations. Fred will still be at the end of the bar earning his beer money, totally under the radar.
  • Stopping under the counter supply to the DIY brigade? I’m retired, I don’t have any card, are you going to stop me buying equipment.
  • Registered electricians will be accused of profiteering by legislation.

Its gone to far to get things back under control with a single bit of legislation. A gradual raising of the required standards is the only workable way. It could take ten or more years.

It’s a charter for chaos. But one YOU have to take. It's going to take years to get back to some reasonable state.
 
The armed forces used to have a good system where you learned as you worked . They also had apprentiships . 3 years at College full time , out they pop all shiny and new but cant twist a screwdriver . Its the old CSE verses the O' level is it not ?
 
The only way for this trade to go is by registration, it’s got to redeem itself somehow.

The down side, just a few things I can think of at the moment:

  • What to do with the incompetent DI’s etc. we don’t have enough fully qualified electricians.
  • The subsidies for training apprentices are inadequate.
  • Controlling substandard installations. Fred will still be at the end of the bar earning his beer money, totally under the radar.
  • Stopping under the counter supply to the DIY brigade? I’m retired, I don’t have any card, are you going to stop me buying equipment.
  • Registered electricians will be accused of profiteering by legislation.

Its gone to far to get things back under control with a single bit of legislation. A gradual raising of the required standards is the only workable way. It could take ten or more years.

It’s a charter for chaos. But one YOU have to take. It's going to take years to get back to some reasonable state.

Like I said, there will have to be compromises as we don't live in an ideal world.

My ideas for and ideal system will be far from perfect, as will yours, but thats why us sparks need to bash our head together and work something out. We can't continue as it is. The corporate profiteering from the guys who are a danger to the public has to end! Shout and be heard, because silence in my opinion is just tacit agreement with the current state of affairs.
 
I would also recommend the introduction of an electricians licence, backed by statute. Legislation would then need to be introduced to restrict the purchasing of any electrical equipment bar the very essentials (plug tops, fuses, lamps etc...) to licenced electricians only. Practising unlicenced electrical work would have to be punishable by severe fines and/or imprisonment.


DIY Dave working on his own home isn't and never has been the problem The problem lies solely with these fast track training centres and the scam providers allowing under trained, under qualified and inexperienced people to operate/practice as an electrician in the domestic sector and beyond!!


Don't get side tracked, stick to the main points that you feel strongly about, like the 17 Day/electrical trainee
training centres and the scheme providers that allow these people to legally operate. The idea of a national licensing requirement would in a stroke rectify the vast majority of the main problems of these parasitic organisations, as well as greatly help in other areas...
 
just a note my brother in law who remains nameless , has or had 16th edition and 2391 but was a truck driver and now delivers car parts but he could not do a rewire to save his life . Decent labourer though ( never practiced as an electrician for anyone just did the course because he could afford it while he was off sick with a bad back
 
DIY Dave working on his own home isn't and never has been the problem The problem lies solely with these fast track training centres and the scam providers allowing under trained, under qualified and inexperienced people to operate/practice as an electrician in the domestic sector and beyond!!

No, DIY dave isn't the problem, the problem is that as soon as you start requesting a higher level of competence, you also introduce higher costs to those who are currently not considered competent. Once you raise the bar, you risk more people ducking under it unless you deny these people the access to the equipment they need to duck under the bar in the first place.

Don't get side tracked, stick to the main points that you feel strongly about, like the 17 Day/electrical trainee training centres and the scheme providers that allow these people to legally operate. The idea of a national licensing requirement would in a stroke rectify the vast majority of the main problems of these parasitic organisations, as well as greatly help in other areas...

I don't personally see it as getting side tracked as I can't see the point of doing one without the other.

- - - Updated - - -

What the hell is the JIB? Another self concerned bunch of pillocks.

Purely an example raised to make the point of being deemed to have gained 'the equivalent to...'
 
Just another note a friend who is a damn good sparky got his Gold card although no apprentiship only 17th edition and 6 years in the trade by virtue of a nice letter from his former boss ????????????
 

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