Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

[Dustydazzler]

 

[mainline]

It's impossible to have a sensible discussion with someone who (presumably deliberately) misrepresents my comments by taking them out of context.

My previous point stands.

All but one of your posts on this forum have involved criticism of sparks on Youtube, almost all of which is aimed at one person, yet you've been wrong on those points as often as you've been right.

Perhaps every single job you've done has been perfect, but I'm 100% certain that not one other member of this forum will claim to have never made a mistake.

I don't seek to censor you, and you're free to post what you please (within forum rules, I'd guess), but labouring the same point doesn't serve to strengthen an argument.

What have i been wrong about ?

 

[timhoward]

I totally agree with you David but nobody that has any salt is going to leave a site being more dangerous than when you arrived there.

I've just watched it again. He finds a gas bond and a suspected water bond disappearing a 'pile of rubble'.
The loop tests are returning 37 ohms.
The CU is a complete joke, including two unused RCDs, and the bus bar is running into both sides on an unused RCD. There is nothing to give any confidence that this was any kind of compliant installation once, and all bets are off. It's a metal unit with no tails clamp, and no insulated tails gland.
In many properties I'd be happy from the clues present to assume there's a TT electrode that I can't find. In that one I wouldn't be, and I'd be worried (as I think Del was) it was an old water pipe earth.

Regarding the TNS connection - he said in the video at the end "this is just temporary" and leaves with a Zs of 0.85 ohms. One assumes that his "temporary" comment means there was a plan for more work.
Phoning the DNO on this won't help much. In this situation they would just say there is no evidence they supplied an earth, and the choice would be paying for a new PME supply (cost variable from 0 to £4000 as per the darts-board of the day) or installing a new visible electrode and making it look like a TT install. Either way a new CU looks to be required. So realistically until Del had time for a larger job and some choices were made it was going to stay with no verifiable earth for a week or two at best.

I not actually sure what I'd have done in that situation, it would depend how much time I had and what I had with me, but I do understand why he did what he did, and I don't consider it more dangerous than when he got there.

 

[nicebutdim]

I've just watched it again. He finds a gas bond and a suspected water bond disappearing a 'pile of rubble'.
The loop tests are returning 37 ohms.
The CU is a complete joke, including two unused RCDs, and the bus bar is running into both sides on an unused RCD. There is nothing to give any confidence that this was any kind of compliant installation once, and all bets are off. It's a metal unit with no tails clamp, and no insulated tails gland.
In many properties I'd be happy from the clues present to assume there's a TT electrode that I can't find. In that one I wouldn't be, and I'd be worried (as I think Del was) it was an old water pipe earth.

Regarding the TNS connection - he said in the video at the end "this is just temporary" and leaves with a Zs of 0.85 ohms. One assumes that his "temporary" comment means there was a plan for more work.
Phoning the DNO on this won't help much. In this situation they would just say there is no evidence they supplied an earth, and the choice would be paying for a new PME supply (cost variable from 0 to £4000 as per the darts-board of the day) or installing a new visible electrode and making it look like a TT install. Either way a new CU looks to be required. So realistically until Del had time for a larger job and some choices were made it was going to stay with no verifiable earth for a week or two at best.

I not actually sure what I'd have done in that situation, it would depend how much time I had and what I had with me, but I do understand why he did what he did, and I don't consider it more dangerous than when he got there.

Context and objectivity, based on observations

If anything this thread serves to highlight that even trained professionals can see or hear what they want to, so chances are that DIYers will do exactly the same and, those who are inclined to do so will, carry on as they always have.

 

[Petej999]

I always found the older tutors were out of touch with some of the newer installation methods and materials when I was at college.
I even suggested to a few that every 5 years or so they should have to spend a few months back on the tools to get up to speed

Bit difficult to get back on the tools if their main job is as a College lecturer, don't you think? as all of the guys that taught me were full time Lecturers

 

[nicebutdim]

Bit difficult to get back on the tools if their main job is as a College lecturer, don't you think? as all of the guys that taught me were full time Lecturers

I have is a colleague who is generally very impatient but it turns out he's very good at explaining things and has a lot of patience when it comes to helping people learn. He's an excellent spark and would make an excellent lecturer, but far too good with tools to be desk based.

 

[mainline]

I've just watched it again. He finds a gas bond and a suspected water bond disappearing a 'pile of rubble'.
The loop tests are returning 37 ohms.
The CU is a complete joke, including two unused RCDs, and the bus bar is running into both sides on an unused RCD. There is nothing to give any confidence that this was any kind of compliant installation once, and all bets are off. It's a metal unit with no tails clamp, and no insulated tails gland.
In many properties I'd be happy from the clues present to assume there's a TT electrode that I can't find. In that one I wouldn't be, and I'd be worried (as I think Del was) it was an old water pipe earth.

Regarding the TNS connection - he said in the video at the end "this is just temporary" and leaves with a Zs of 0.85 ohms. One assumes that his "temporary" comment means there was a plan for more work.
Phoning the DNO on this won't help much. In this situation they would just say there is no evidence they supplied an earth, and the choice would be paying for a new PME supply (cost variable from 0 to £4000 as per the darts-board of the day) or installing a new visible electrode and making it look like a TT install. Either way a new CU looks to be required. So realistically until Del had time for a larger job and some choices were made it was going to stay with no verifiable earth for a week or two at best.

I not actually sure what I'd have done in that situation, it would depend how much time I had and what I had with me, but I do understand why he did what he did, and I don't consider it more dangerous than when he got there.

I agree with you, but he should have verified what type of earthing system bonding/sizes etc before taking it upon himself to do what he did.

Would this be categorized as bad practice or just bad ?

 

[westward10]

I agree with you, but he should have verified what type of earthing system bonding/sizes etc before taking it upon himself to do what he did.

Would this be categorized as bad practice or just bad ?

I don't believe in the terms good or bad practice as these are based on personal practices and opinion. As @timhoward says I too don't actually know what I would have done in that situation, has he made it worse well no he hasn't.

 

[7029 dave]

I don't believe in the terms good or bad practice as these are based on personal practices and opinion. As @timhoward says I too don't actually know what I would have done in that situation, has he made it worse well no he hasn't.

I would have rang the DNO, if they are responsible for the earthing arrangement it would be/should be documented and take it from there.

 

[mainline]

I don't believe in the terms good or bad practice as these are based on personal practices and opinion. As @timhoward says I too don't actually know what I would have done in that situation, has he made it worse well no he hasn't.

I don't believe in the terms good or bad practice as these are based on personal practices and opinion. As @timhoward says I too don't actually know what I would have done in that situation, has he made it worse well no he hasn't.

Who knows if he has made it worse or not ?
Why do you think the DNO has to decide ? Do you think clamping to the cable has no effect ?
Do you think a neutral loss would be the same as before it was altered ?
Im sure its all fine and dandy.

 

[timhoward]

I have is a colleague who is generally very impatient but it turns out he's very good at explaining things and has a lot of patience when it comes to helping people learn. He's an excellent spark and would make an excellent lecturer, but far too good with tools to be desk based.

I guess the other way of looking at is that an excellent spark who is good at explaining things could create 10 excellent sparks in 3 years....and the productivity hit in the meantime is worth it, but that doesn't help the company unless they are apprentices.
I do sometimes wonder how colleges find their tutors. I might fancy that pre-retirement....!

 

[westward10]

Who knows if he has made it worse or not ?
Why do you think the DNO has to decide ? Do you think clamping to the cable has no effect ?
Do you think a neutral loss would be the same as before it was altered ?
Im sure its all fine and dandy.

I never said the DNO has to decide.
Clamping the cable has no effect?
Neutral loss?

 

[timhoward]

Who knows if he has made it worse or not ?
Why do you think the DNO has to decide ? Do you think clamping to the cable has no effect ?
Do you think a neutral loss would be the same as before it was altered ?
Im sure its all fine and dandy.

We were on the cusp of sensible civil conversation about this, but you seem to have reverted to confrontational mode. I have no issue if you have a different opinion. It's healthy! But the tone of your posts could be more conducive to sensible discussion.

 

[mainline]

We were on the cusp of sensible civil conversation about this, but you seem to have reverted to confrontational mode. I have no issue if you have a different opinion. It's healthy! But the tone of your posts could be more conducive to sensible discussion.

You said " has he made it worse well no he hasn't"

Of course he has made it worse than it was as i was pointing out.

 

[timhoward]

You said " has he made it worse well no he hasn't"

Of course he has made it worse than it was as i was pointing out

I'm interested what you think about a potential Neutral loss. Do you think it would be any worse than it would be on a PME setup?
To my thinking we don't know where the nearest PME point is so it's rather pot luck whether Neutral currents end up diverted. But please do share your thinking.

 

[nicebutdim]

You said " has he made it worse well no he hasn't"

Of course he has made it worse than it was as i was pointing out

Problem is you haven't pointed out anything and make statements without any reasoning about how you arrive at those conclusions.

Don't be afraid to explain things - not everyone here is a seasoned spark and many of us are here to learn from the experiences of others.