Good Old Delroy, he gets all the best Jobs :)

[Dustydazzler]

 

[nicebutdim]

No manipulation on my part, but a presentation of simple facts.

There are many situations where time constraints are quite legitimately placed on electrical work and many electricians happily work under those conditions, precisely because they're able to do so safely and competently.

You can argue against the AM2 as much as you like, but the fact remains that is is the only means of independent assessment for electrical trainees. Not having completed the AM2 doesn't mean an electrician is incompetent, but passing it does demonstrate a measurable level of ability that otherwise remains an unknown quantity - hence many employers demanding that more recently qualified electricians have passed it.

Other than the fact that it was set up by a self-appointed body, I'm yet to see any merit in your argument against the AM2. It would appear as though you're unintentionally raising more points in its favour, than against.

 

[Mike Johnson]

No manipulation on my part, but a presentation of simple facts.

Other than the fact that it was set up by a self-appointed body, I'm yet to see any merit in your argument against the AM2. It would appear as though you're unintentionally raising more points in its favour, than against.

And there is the manipulation, I am not against AM2 just pointing out the real facts that it is a so called qualification set up by itself, which in effect is no qualification at all, you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues, if any, there is no point in carrying on this conversation as we are both entrenched on our own views, so will leave it there.

 

[nicebutdim]

And there is the manipulation, I am not against AM2 just pointing out the real facts that it is a so called qualification set up by itself, which in effect is no qualification at all, you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues, if any, there is no point in carrying on this conversation as we are both entrenched on our own views, so will leave it there.

I will indeed leave the issue here as you appear to have no substantative argument worth countering, although I do feel that some points need to be addressed first.

At no time have I manipulated your comments and have simply argued against that which you posted. I further resent the accusation of manipulation when, in the same paragraph, you go on to make claims that are very much intended to manipulate my own comments and so I'll address those accusations.

1. I am not a 'devotee of the AM2', given that I'm still a trainee and have yet to get to the stage of sitting the assessment.

2. More importantly; I have no 'vested interest in promoting the virtues of AM2' and would caution against making such allegations on a public forum. Given your statements extolling the virtues of a university education, I expected better from you - not only better, but also wiser commentary.

If you're a man of your word, we can consider the subject closed.

 

[Mike Johnson]

I will indeed leave the issue here as you appear to no substantative argument worth countering, although I do feel that some points need to be addressed first.

That is manipulative.

 

[nicebutdim]

That is manipulative.

Perhaps it was and perhaps I delivered what you asked for.

Your previous comment was ad hominem and I'm not sure why you might expect that it should have gone unchallenged. It would have been much better for you to not have stooped to the level of personal attack and unsubstantiated allegation.

If you have an argument against AM2, I'll be happy to read it. If personal attack is going to be the basis of that argument, I suggest you heed your own advice and park the topic at this point.

 

[Mike Johnson]

Can you point out where I have personally attacked you?

 

[Pretty Mouth]

I find time pressures do apply for my work (domestic mainly). You can't have the power off in someone's home indefinitely, the freezer'll be defrosting, and the kids (and adults) will start whining that there's no wifi. Then there's the cost factor, to either you or the customer, should the job take too long.

 

[DPG]

There should be no life pressure when working on a job, it's not an exam and does not have time restrictions, it's not a competition, getting it right for the customer is what counts.

A company is most definitely in competition with other companies working in the same area.

And if you have got through your working ife without ever feeling under any pressure then I am very very surprised.

 

[pirate]

It is very difficult, in my experience, to avoid pressure in your working life. What you can do is try to minimise it, but of course you may need to turn down work if you think a particular job is going to give you pressure. Conversely, you might take on a seemingly simple job only for it to turn out an absolute nightmare. A crystal ball would be very useful...
A mate called me a few weeks ago to say that the builder he had been awaiting for 8 weeks was coming that afternoon, so could i pop round and replace the sockets in his garden room, right now. I said no...why should I have to rush the job cos Bob is standing over me wanting to get in and out in an hour? He told Bob to come back the following week, I did the job in a leisurely way, and it all got sorted in the end. It's easy for a retired bloke like I am to manage the possible stress, but I learned during my working life that it's ok to say "no"...and the benefits can be considerable.

 

[nicebutdim]

Can you point out where I have personally attacked you?

...you are obviously a devotee of the AM2 and have a vested interest in promoting it's virtues...

Untrue and entirely without foundation.

I pointed out that not completing it may limit future career options for trainees. I have no vested interest in the AM2 and would be quite content to use another means of assessment, if one was available.

As a matter of fact, I'd be very happy to take your advice and head back to study at a university - perhaps you could point out a suitable course that would provide the relevant learning and skills required of an electrician?

In the history of pointless conversations, this must rank quite highly. Someone asks what the differences are between all three versions of the AM2 and you shoot off on a personal crusade against the only current means of independent assessment for trainee electricians. Rather than hinder the progress of trainess, perhaps you could focus that energy on helping them.

 

[Lister1987]

Untrue and entirely without foundation.

I pointed out that not completing it may limit future career options for trainees. I have no vested interest in the AM2 and would be quite content to use another means of assessment, if one was available.

As a matter of fact, I'd be very happy to take your advice and head back to study at a university - perhaps you could point out a suitable course that would provide the relevant learning and skills required of an electrician?

In the history of pointless conversations, this must rank quite highly. Someone asks what the differences are between all three versions of the AM2 and you shoot off on a personal crusade against the only current means of independent assessment for trainee electricians. Rather than hinder the progress of trainess, perhaps you could focus that energy on helping them.

It's in the same boat as CPSs imo. You have a self appointed body that has a level of 'control' over an aspect of our industry and uses this 'monopoly' for its own financial gain.

If NET operated on an NFP basis and ploughed monies back into the industry (self advertising doesn't count. So long as monies are changing hands thrn someone's underlying agenda is being served.

 

[nicebutdim]

It's in the same boat as CPSs imo. You have a self appointed body that has a level of 'control' over an aspect of our industry and uses this 'monopoly' for its own financial gain.

If NET operated on an NFP basis and ploughed monies back into the industry (self advertising doesn't count. So long as monies are changing hands thrn someone's underlying agenda is being served.

I don't disagree on these point and have been consistent in that regard. Fact is that many employers will expect recently qualified sparks to have the AM2 and not completing the assessment may limit career opportunities. I'm not sure what has been difficult to understand from my posts or why anyone might think other issues are relevant to the question that was posed.

If I ask a shopkeeper how much their milk costs, I don't expect a lengthy diatribe about farmers, dairies and wholesalers.

 

[Mike Johnson]

If I ask a shopkeeper how much their milk costs, I don't expect a lengthy diatribe about farmers, dairies and wholesalers.

But we do get the diatribe from many electricians on here about how much the van costs to run and membership of an Association and the cost of the equipment needed to carry out the job, and all this must be taken into account when pricing a job.

 

[nicebutdim]

But we do get the diatribe from many electricians on here about how much the van costs to run and membership of an Association and the cost of the equipment needed to carry out the job, and all this must be taken into account when pricing a job.

Which would indeed be relevant points should someone seek advice about pricing a job.

When someone asked what the differences are between the three versions of AM2, not a single one of your points have been relevant. Sorry to be blunt, but that's the bottom line and, at this stage, I think this needs to be made clear.

My position has been consistent and clear. If you wish to continue with this issue (which you were keen to leave last night), please be assured that doing so will be a solo endeavour from here on.

 

[Mike Johnson]

The only thing I said I would leave was the discussion on AM2, its you that keeps bringing it up again, I have moved on, but it seems you can't.

 

[swaRRR]

You can manipulate any scenario to suit your argument as much as you like, but if you feel that type of pressure you are in the wrong work place, if a client puts you under that type of pressure walk away, life is too short to put up with unreasonable work practice's or time constraints.

It's not that someone is 'pressuring' you per se, it's that it's timed, you're not allowed to ask how to do it or look stuff up. That's what i meant by 'pressure'. On site if i don't know something i google it.

 

[LewisM]

I wonder if this bloke knows and/or cares there is a 19 page thread about him lol

 

[mainline]

I wonder if this bloke knows and/or cares there is a 19 page thread about him lol

Maybe he's still working on getting through the Janet and John books first.

 

[Lister1987]

Maybe he's still working on getting through the Janet and John books first.

It's all a ruse anyway @Dustydazzler IS Del

DustyDazzler

Rearrange and what do you have? Del

He's been rumbled finally

 

[Dustydazzler]

 

[Dustydazzler]

I hope Del is okay as he hasn't been uploading any new content to the UTube

Or has his new found celebrity electrician fame afforded him the summer off

 

[UNG]

I hope Del is okay as he hasn't been uploading any new content to the UTube

Or has his new found celebrity electrician fame afforded him the summer off

Are you struggling and suffering withdrawal symtoms without your Del fix

 

[mainline]

I hope Del is okay as he hasn't been uploading any new content to the UTube

Or has his new found celebrity electrician fame afforded him the summer off

I think I know what's happened to Del

He's been asked to put a socket in the corner of a round room.

 

[goasis]

I hope Del is okay as he hasn't been uploading any new content to the UTube

Or has his new found celebrity electrician fame afforded him the summer off

I know the language used in bs7671 isn't known for being clear and straightforward.... but the first 3 or 4 mins of this really help clear things up...

 

[Dustydazzler]

Funny you should post this as I watched about 10 mins of this last night

Soon as they start going on about AFDDDDDs , I start to nod off