Green Deal & Eco Funds

[SRE]

Thanks Ted, I did see this but the first customer I sent it to immediately commented that there wasn't anyone in our area, so I can't see it benefiting anyone local to us too soon.

So the work still has to be completed by the Green Deal Provider/Installer?? Who after many layers of bureaucracy could end up the same price after the voucher as Joe Bloggs down the road who's served the community well for the last 20 years.

It's been a long week - maybe I'm just too cynical.

 

[Worcester]

@SRE that's very true for some of the work - the big one in this is EWI at 6k and 75%, that's a shed load of contribution and effectively means that for a mid terrace or a small end-terrace they only need to find 25% of the install - easy to bung on a Green Deal Finance Plan.

The big winners are going to be the landlords with old housing stock, - and at the small contribution now needed, the tenant won't mind.

Why have the govt done this - simples
1) The cashback scheme finishes at the end of June, and the system still hasn't taken off
2) Nearly all the Energy companies have met or are near to meeting their HHCRO targets for 2014/15 already, so no more free boilers.
3) The ECO funding that was supposed to have helped measures like this meet the Golden Rule, never materialised, and won't in the foreseeable future
4) There are elections looming and the don't want the Green Deal to become a (dead) White Elephant.

So the customer gets their GDAR for free, can choose a couple of measures and get £1k back, which is more than they could have got on the old cashback scheme.

Plus it now has a sensible timespan instead of a 3 month knee jerk kick start, so the likes of Mark Group, can put a marketing and sales strategy back together, and come next spring the Govt can announce great successes.

 

[SRE]

Thanks Gordon - so if you want to have your solid wall insulation done but don't want to have a GD finance plan can you still do that and just have the cashback? I just can't seem to find any detail in writing about what and how people will be eligible, other than the bit Ted's shown above which does provide some basic detail but not much. I currently have 3 customers in detached houses who need ewi but can't even get someone to visit them - all rural and no GDP or installers anywhere near us.

 

[Worcester]

Thanks Gordon - so if you want to have your solid wall insulation done but don't want to have a GD finance plan can you still do that and just have the cashback?

Yes,

I just can't seem to find any detail in writing about what and how people will be eligible, other than the bit Ted's shown above which does provide some basic detail but not much. I currently have 3 customers in detached houses who need ewi but can't even get someone to visit them - all rural and no GDP or installers anywhere near us.

The official process is:
Contact a GDP, who will arrange the GDAR and quotes for you.

See my extended reply in the Green Lounge.

 

[TedM]

SRE, AIUI the GDHIF work doesn't have to be done under a GD Finance Plan but it must be carried out by a GD Installer/Provider. So if there aren't any prepared to work in your area I can't see that this will help.

 

[SRE]

It may encourage some local installers to go down that route though sometimes they have to be actually shown how the process works and how they will benefit before they will commit. We had a lot of interested installers in GD but none of the could see the logic in the GDF - in common with most of the country!!

 

[John Barsby]

Ok so were looking to install a boiler's that has Gas flue heat recovery built in so we can offer our customers the GDHIF Cash Back. Has anyone any idea what triggers FGHR to appear as a recommendation on the EPC ?

 

[The Solar King]

It would have to appear on the Green Deal Assessment, not the EPC. You would need to check on its qualification as a GD measure in the property in question.

From my experience of these things, they are hardly worth the effort. Last time I talked to Worcester Bosch, they felt the gains were so marginal as not to be worthwhile.

One system I saw specified on a new build to meet SAP was so complicated as to beggar belief. Extra insulation would have been cheaper and far more effective.

 

[Worcester]

With a modern condensing boiler, that's already effectively what you're doing...

 

[John Barsby]

I was under the impression that the GDHIF accepted EPC recommendations as well as GDAR recommendations.
I have EPC's where it has recommended FGHR but usually only for properties that have a none condensing combi fitted already.

The boiler with FGHR built in is the Ideal Logic CODE and will cost £390+vat more than a Ideal Logic. Are you saying it would be cheaper to install one of the insulation methods instead to meet the 2 measure requirement ?

 

[The Solar King]

Insulation is always going to be the most effective thing to do. To put it in perspective, that kind of money would buy nearly 40sqM of 100mm Kingspan, Celotex or similar. The reduction in heat loss would be far greater than the marginal savings of FGHR over a modern condensing boiler. You also end up needing a smaller boiler as the heat load is less. Savings are independent of heating method. The phrase is fabric first, or in terms of solar, 'insulate before you generate'.

We only ever fit Worcester Bosch boilers when doing renovation work or as part of an upgrade alongside solar thermal, so am unable to comment on Ideal Logic.

Insulation added internally can be disruptive in older properties where there is no cavity, especially if there are fancy cornices. Plain ones are no problem. Best time to do it is when a room is being redecorated. Unless it is a shoe box (which older properties tend not to be), no one is going to miss 4 inches off the room size. It is quick to remove skirtings, picture rails etc, install sheets of insulated plasterboard, tape them and reinstate. Only problem is you need a GD installer to do it if you wish to benefit from any offers available. It is often cheaper and more cost effective to simply get on with it using local trades people.

It is easy to get tied up in 'techy' solutions, when the old fashioned boring ones are the way to go. We are progressively improving the thermal performance of our 1929 (could have been built in 1850) stone walled and dry lined house using this approach. As they say by the inch its a cinch, by the yard its hard.

 

[TedM]

Over 10% of ECO installations fail to meet standards (from an overall 5% sample of all installs).

https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/ofgem-publications/88147/ecotechnicalmonitoringreportjune2014v1.pdf

 

[John Barsby]

GDHIF Closed with immediate effect !!!
https://energy-saving-home-improvement-fund.service.gov.uk/

 

[The Solar King]

Incidentally, FGHR is to be removed from recommended GD measures. Need I say more?

 

[Worcester]

All the Green Deal Home Improvement Fund (GDHIF) for 2014 is spent - the scheme is closed for new applicants - see comments here, - 44% of applications received in 2 days as they announced the early closure. Worse fiasco than the FiT cut of 2011

http://www.electriciansforums.co.uk/renewable-heat/93360-gdhif-cut-tomorrow.html