Green deal info

[SRE]

I have one in front of me which suggests solar thermal but says it can't be fully financed under the Green Deal and you may need to contribute some payment up front. Low energy lighting doesn't even have the amber tick so it's not eligible at all.

 

[TedM]

DECC haven't clarified the position on low energy lighting in domestic properties. The concern is that people would just walk away with LED bulbs when they move if these have been financed via GD. It's difficult to see how this could be resolved simply.

 

[sedgy34]

I can't see led lamps being involved in the scheme as alot of misuse will happen

 

[MickF]

Just spent 6 hours with various people involved at the sharp end on the Greendeal, including one GDP ..

Maybe i'm a cynic..

A number things came out of it
1) The average customer who takes up the green deal will do so as they have no other way of funding the measures. i.e. they are D, E on the social scale, and also are the same people that would already have gone for the 'free solar'
2) The people that will make money out of this are the finance providers - they (the GDP's) will do the math on the returns, and so set the price of the work, you can gaurantee that what won't be trimmed is the cost of the finance. - There are NO controls on the interest rate to be charged.
3) For installers, it will simple be a race to the bottom on costs/pricing.
4) If as an installer you take a proposal to a GDP, they have no obilgation to give it back to you to do the work - they will more than likely give it to the lowest cost provider.
5) Entry points into the green deal are most likely to be either the current crop of telesales offering 'free' insulation, or a 'distress' purchase: Mrs Bloggings boiler breaks down, they go in offer a replacement bolier (condensing of course) for 'FREE' on the green deal, and then immediately upsell on loft insulation, cavity wall insulation, double galzing etc etc. - all for 'FREE'.- gotcha Mrs Bloggins
6) There will only be 50 green deal approved project per week between ovtober and december, of which 20 per week have been allocated to Kingfisher aka B&Q
7) Anything that meets 'the golden rule' is effectively in, in some cases that may mean it needs topping up from the ECO funding in order for it to meet the Golden Rule, external wall insulation being a case in point.
8) The finance take a second charge on the property - now try to sell it !!!
8) And here's the big one ... If you have solar Pv or thermal (or any other renewable technolgy) installed under the green deal (even though it is a commercial finance scheme) you wil NOT be eligible for FIT or RHI .......

Bottom line, for any professional independant installer, forget the Green Deal, the likes of the Mark Group, Carillion, British Gas etc will love it.

 

[MickF]

p.s.
And of course since the Solar PV and Solar Thermal isn't eleigible for FIT / RHI, you won't need to be MCS registered to isntall it! You just need to comply with the 'lower' generic PAS 2030

Dr Scott Steedman, Director (Designate) of Standards at BSI said:

“BSI’s Green Deal Installation Standard, PAS 2030 not only provides installers with the ability to demonstrate their competence but is designed to provide assurance for the public that the quality of work will be at the appropriate level. We were delighted to have worked with DECC in delivering the first Green Deal standard which will help encourage adoption of the scheme and the best possible result for the UK with this energy efficiency initiative.”

 

[moggy1968]

A Government initiative that favours the Big companies rather than SMSEs, surely not,I don't believe it!!

 

[Earthstore]

Well what a can of worms this is then.
As these customers will in essence be buying systems on credit, they will be covered by the consumer credit act, oh, I see some court cases on the horizon...

 

[MickF]

Spot on, all GDP's have to be CCA compliant..

The only 'hope' is with the likes of the Grafton Group (they are already one of the approved GDP's) they trade under the Buildbase, Plumbase, Jackson and Selco brands, and they want to shift their materials.

However, you are up against the big boys, and I can now see the sharks at the checkout of B&Q telling people not to pay for that roll of insulation they've just picked up as if they let a man come round they can have it for 'free'....

 

[MickF]

Theoritically a Housing Association could also become a GDP ... (it's open to anyone that is prepared to be 'compliant') and get their tenant to pay for the improvements.

or - here's one fro SRE A property developer aka landlord could get all the improvements to bring the building up to the standards for 'free' and get it paid for by the tenants ion their bill ......

 

[SRE]

Theoritically a Housing Association could also become a GDP ... (it's open to anyone that is prepared to be 'compliant') and get their tenant to pay for the improvements.

or - here's one fro SRE A property developer aka landlord could get all the improvements to bring the building up to the standards for 'free' and get it paid for by the tenants ion their bill ......

Yea, ironically I benefit from a much improved house while my tenant pays for it. I've got 3 houses with solid walls and the thought has crossed my mind - not sure if my morals will let me do it though!

Here's Somerset West Home Energy a pre Eco/Green Deal pilot run by a reputable energy agency in Bristol. It's going to be interesting to see how they get on with their pilot.

 

[Gavin A]

A few weeks back I went to a green deal briefing session, and I'm sure they said the interest rate to be applied was 6%.

I've recently signed up with a loans specialist who reckons they'll be able to supply unsecured personal loans to home owners with reasonable credit ratings at rates in the region of 5-6% for £5-10k loans without any of the Green Deal hassle, or linking to energy bills etc.

Now maybe they're telling me porkies, but if not, then I'm struggling to see why anyone other than those with bad credit histories would benefit from going the green deal route instead of dealing direct with a company that could put together a competitive finance package for them, but actually carry the work out without having to pay for all the multiple layers of admin costs involved in green deal.

As for the idea of tenants being able to force landlords to accept green deal financed improvements....... this seems pretty back to front to me after chatting with a management agent about it, as all landlords are being forced to improve the energy efficiency ratings of their properties over the next few years anyway at their expense, so all this is doing is moving the cost of these improvements from the landlords to the tenants. That seems a bit of an odd policy to me.

 

[Earthstore]

Also you do not receive FIT payments under the Green Deal, you just make the repayments from the savings, so a personal loan would make much more sense.

That is my understanding of it.

 

[sedgy34]

I beg to differ the green deal loan is on the property if you have a loan for the same thing and your circumstances change and you need to move house the loan goes with you. Unless everyone in this situation puts it in the sale of there property


Im on the understanding that you do receive the fit payments on the green deal
otherwise what's the point in it all

 

[Gavin A]

I'm not just talking about for PV though, I'm talking about the entire green deal scheme.

Or of relevance to this forum, what I'm getting at is that it's all hype and hot air, and there's very little background justification for it at all, so I'd think that treading carefully and not spending a fortune getting trained up for it would be a sensible policy. Obviously I could be very wrong on this and it'll be the biggest thing since sliced bread, but I just don't see it.

having said that, we have had one customer decide they're going to wait until the green deal comes out. So the hype and hot air might actually be working.

 

[Gavin A]

I beg to differ the green deal loan is on the property if you have a loan for the same thing and your circumstances change and you need to move house the loan goes with you. Unless everyone in this situation puts it in the sale of there property

true, but then you ought to be able to recoup something in the region of the value of the work you've had done when selling the house, and can then repay the loan if you want.

or it'll just make selling the house that much easier.

I'd expect having a green deal loan needing to be paid back via the energy bills though is likely to be a significant stumbling block for anyone trying to sell the house, and most will end up just paying it off at that point anyway if they can to remove that issue from the situation.