Have a major problem

[james stas]

Hi guys, i'm not an electrician ,I'm a builder.

a month ago we had an electrician in first fixing, after he left some capping fell off and i put it back on with a nail. turns out i nicked the cable but it wasnt live until yesterday when he second fixed the outside light and powered on and left. I wasnt on site but later the customers got a shock from the wall several feet from the cable, the whole wall was live , because it was damp from the plastering i had done (like 3 weeks ago) and i nicked the cable. so its all my fault i am told.

Should this not have been picked up on the insulation resistance test?
And why did the electrics not trip? i mean if i put the nail into the cable today would it trip or would the whole wall be live? i got a severe telling off for putting customers lives at risk but builders sometimes damage hidden cables and it always trips and never in my life have i heard of a whole wall being live like this was.

Please post honest opinions. i need to know if its my fault.

thanks
James

 

[Toneyz]

He couldn't have been up to much if the capping just fell off the wall. Sounds as though he didn't do the required testing to me as well.

the capping must have been nailed by more than one fixing.

 

[james stas]

my father ordered the work, i plastered it but the wire wasnt connected it was just first fixed so 1 month later and they second fixed it and suddenly the whole wall is live and it didnt show up on test, there is a steel beam in the wall..... have been told i could have had my parents and brother in prison and killed people and i am starting to wonder if i should find another job tbh.

Earlier this year a mains cable was directly under a paving slab less than 2" deep and i hit it with a pickaxe and my eyes went funny and my arms hurt for a long time after that, i think i have lost strength permanently tbh. At least on that one western power said it wasn't my fault but does that matter if im dead?

thanks for all your responses. it seems plausable that this wouldnt have shown up on test if the fabric of thebuilding wasnt earthed ( i'll never understand how it wasnt earthed if all the pipes are bonded and back boxes are metal in the walls) isnt a solid building earthed by its nature?

 

[james stas]

my father ordered the work, i plastered it but the wire wasnt connected it was just first fixed so 1 month later and they second fixed it and suddenly the whole wall is live and it didnt show up on test, there is a steel beam in the wall..... have been told i could have had my parents and brother in prison and killed people and i am starting to wonder if i should find another job tbh.

Earlier this year a mains cable was directly under a paving slab less than 2" deep and i hit it with a pickaxe and my eyes went funny and my arms hurt for a long time after that, i think i have lost strength permanently tbh. At least on that one western power said it wasn't my fault but does that matter if im dead?

thanks for all your responses. it seems plausable that this wouldnt have shown up on test if the fabric of thebuilding wasnt earthed ( i'll never understand how it wasnt earthed if all the pipes are bonded and back boxes are metal in the walls) isnt a solid building earthed by its nature?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

he says its going back to the substation and bypassing the rcd, he metered the wall to a nearby socket earth and got 177 volts. says all readings were above 299 megohms. he got really nasy when i asked for a report and said how insulting it was. im a terrible human for nearly killing people and now i question his honesty and integrity. i only asked for a report in a polite manner

You need to find an Electrician who understands what he is doing.
The power bypassing the RCD when it returns to the substation, is what makes the RCD trip.

 

[james stas]

so it should have been prevented by test? why is this a grey area? damage to live only is always detectable on test or not?

 

[james stas]

thanks guys for your answers i have nowhere else to turn for advice

 

[jackhammerJIM]

have been told i could have had my parents and brother in prison and killed people and i am starting to wonder if i should find another job tbh

Not sure about that . The sparky would have been in the dock for energising a faulty circuit .

 

[NellyManjaro]

I'll say again that you shouldn't of touched the capping... wasn't your job but like someone else pointed out... you would of rang him and said it's fallen off and 99.9% chance he would either say just put it back on or you would of offered and he'd say yea

None of what you have told us makes you a bad person... people make mistakes simple... I am amazed that nothing flagged up on testing... and even more amazed that the plasterer didn't get a shock... as far as I'm concerned if the cpc was to the metal back box properly and the damp wall allowed current to travel that far then there it will reach the metal back box hit the cpc and RCD trip I can't see any other way other than he didn't carry his test out correctly it's a very hard one to put the blame on... it's yours in a way for doing it but he also has to take a it of liability for not finding it before it happened

On that note I went to one of my grandads friends houses a while back... been in the house 45 years (grandad 're wired it back then) and he's had no problems till he got a spark to come in and change a socket to an RCD socket on the advice of someone he knew saying you need it when using stuff outside ie jetwash... he's cracking on a bit so got a bit scared by it and got someone to do it but I went round to have a look because the guy got his £200 off the old couple and did 1 yes £200 (guy clearly has no morals) So to cut a long story short old this socket was dodgy... took the front off to look... lacked quality but nothing unusual so while I started to have a think whilst talking to the man I happen to rest my hand on the wall and boom got a nice little bolt... turns out the nail that has been hanging various clocks for the last 45 years that the old guy put up days after my grandad left had nicked the live cable through the capping and the where I put my hand on the wall the capping must of just been close enough to reach me!! Since then I have pulled in a new cable which fixed the problem and not long after upgraded his CU again off the advice off an old friend and never had a problem since
Nice little story for you guys there

 

[Deleted member 26818]

so it should have been prevented by test? why is this a grey area? damage to live only is always detectable on test or not?

No, it’s not always dectable with testing.
However, the RCD should have operated when the homeowner received the shock. The RCD would not have prevented the homeowner from recieving the shock, but should have prevented death.
Did the homeowner report that the RCD tripped when they received the shock?

 

[Octopus]

OP - please carify your "position" in this.

You've stated you had a spark

You've stated you have customers

Who are you?

 

[NellyManjaro]

OP - please carify your "position" in this.

Whos OP??

I'm new to this sorry

 

[james stas]

thanks spinlondon, so the rcd not operating is whats not making sense to me. Why does the electrician say i almost killed customers if it should have prevented injury/death? I think I understand the floating earth bit but not the death from electrocution... is there anywhere in any textbook that says the rcb would have allowed a shock but prevented death? if it would have prevented death why does he say my family would go to prison and customers would be killed?

 

[james stas]

my dad and brother own the company,i work for them. i do all trades except gas and electric

 

[Octopus]

my dad and brother own the company,i work for them. i do all trades except gas and electric

So you're a builder.

Who's to blame - tricky to say as both you and the spark have played your parts BUT if the wall had been dry, this wouldn't have even been noticed.

Why did you have customers in a newly plastered room? with the electrics 2nd fixed? and LIVE? - don't you guys realise that 2nd fixing electrics before the plaster is dry can give some very odd test results.

I don't think we have all the story here.

 

[james stas]

did you read my posts? my first line of the first post says im a builder