Have a major problem

[james stas]

Hi guys, i'm not an electrician ,I'm a builder.

a month ago we had an electrician in first fixing, after he left some capping fell off and i put it back on with a nail. turns out i nicked the cable but it wasnt live until yesterday when he second fixed the outside light and powered on and left. I wasnt on site but later the customers got a shock from the wall several feet from the cable, the whole wall was live , because it was damp from the plastering i had done (like 3 weeks ago) and i nicked the cable. so its all my fault i am told.

Should this not have been picked up on the insulation resistance test?
And why did the electrics not trip? i mean if i put the nail into the cable today would it trip or would the whole wall be live? i got a severe telling off for putting customers lives at risk but builders sometimes damage hidden cables and it always trips and never in my life have i heard of a whole wall being live like this was.

Please post honest opinions. i need to know if its my fault.

thanks
James

 

[snowhead]

have been told i could have had my parents and brother in prison and killed people and i am starting to wonder if i should find another job tbh.

I doubt that information came form a reliable Legally qualified source, It was from the electrician I suspect.

As second fix and powering up took place after the wall was plastered and the nail had been put through the cable and only hours before the incident, the fault should have been found by the Electrician in his final testing.

The purpose of testing at second fix is to check there has been no damage to cables.
It doesn't matter who put the nail in the cable or if it was cut by a plasterers trowel or nailed though the skirting by a Joiner, The Electrician should have found it.

If the nail was put in after second fix, that would be a different matter.

 

[james stas]

it was plastered a month ago like i said they only connected the cable up yesterday as explained twice alrdy

 

[james stas]

And how is it getting back to the substation

through the wall then the customer then the floor i amtold

 

[NellyManjaro]

So what he is saying that your dad and brother are liable because he is putting the blame fully on you and taking no responsibility himself... it was plastered a month ago... irrelevant... if tbe install was done correctly and you could get a shock from the wall then it should of shown up in testing... he hasn't done the testing properly and is bricking it because he probably got a low IR result and just thought -------s to it I'll put it's ok and get a job out of it at a later date... this guy sounds like hard work and is very quick to pass the book and from what he said he doesn't really know what he's talking about with regards to anyrhing but is probably just panicking because he wants his name clear

I know some people think that it may not flag up but I'm convinced that if I'd of done that test then I would of seen a strange result

 

[snowhead]

thanks spinlondon, so the rcd not operating is whats not making sense to me.

RCDs are there to prevent serious injury or death.
They don't stop electric shocks.
It's very unlikely the person involved would have died, the RCD would have tripped had the fault current have been high enough.

 

[Strima]

There's a lot of possibilities here that a lot of what has been posted is pure speculation. Such as the IR testing may have been done before second fixing took place.

As I, and others have posted, IR testing may well not identify this sort of scenario and the RCD may well hold as there was probably very little current running through the installation when energised.

We need to know if the RCD did indeed operate as designed when human contact was made with the fault.

Luckily no one was seriously injured. An investigation may well happen but with things like this there is no single cause, just a sequence of events that link up. You were one link in this chain of events, there are other links so the finger will not point solely at you.

For now, learn from it and move on. Stop sticking nails in bits of copper!!!

 

[james stas]

he said they would get a 6amp shock and it could kill them because it was over so many milliamps and because it was a floating earth rcb wouldn't operate. i'm starting to get ----ed off with this guy now

 

[HandySparks]

he said they would get a 6amp shock and it could kill them because it was over so many milliamps and because it was a floating earth rcb wouldn't operate. i'm starting to get ****ed off with this guy now

Think you need to employ an electrician who understands how electricity works. This one clearly doesn't.

 

[NellyManjaro]

The only thing that is correct is that it takes like 0.5A to kill someone might even be less but it's like that figure... very low... needless to say we have rule someone out of this.... why on earth (get it hahahaha) did the customer touch the wall!!! It's their fault!!! They shouldn't just got around stroking walls

 

[Des 56]

Fair enough the thread has explained the need for testing and how that testing may or may not have been evident,however,we have wiring regulations that are constructed so that the general public (who may be assumed to have no understanding of how electrics behave)are protected by the set standards of installation work and the testing regime that follows and also by protective devices,which should, as fully as possible, protect the person from serious injury should a occurrence take place

If all these were in situ,this builder, who made a mistake,he bears no responsibility whatsoever for the shock sustained by the customer

He is not trained in this trade,he is not expected to know that he could cause danger by his actions
It is for standards and us alone to shoulder any responsibility for lack of safety, whether through poor or inadequate testing,or poor installation standards,the general public and other trades are not to be the fall guys

 

[james stas]

thank you again for your contributions guys nowhere else can you get impartial honest advice. you are all a valuable resource for each other and non sparkys like me

 

[Deleted member 9648]

my nail was making the capping live i am told and there was no imbalance between neutral and live because it was going back to the substation.,,....

This is the main reason I never use metal capping. IMO if used it should be earthed, and it never is. It's pointless because it will not provide any more protection to a cable than plastic which carries far less risk.

 

[Wilko]

The RCD should of tripped though as there would be an imbalance between line an neutral...As westward10 says there is no guarantee an IR test would pick it up although you would of thought the metal back box that's earthed and in contact with the damp plaster would pretty much guarantee an unacceptable IR reading. Something isn't right IMO.

Agree the IR must've been less than expected, so probably not done prior to making live (or ignored as already mentioned). If RCD didn't trip then I'm guessing the good folks may've been getting less than 15mA when they completed the circuit ... the pain just goes on and on.

 

[Ian1981]

This is the main reason I never use metal capping. IMO if used it should be earthed, and it never is. It's pointless because it will not provide any more protection to a cable than plastic which carries far less risk.

Too difficult to Earth correctly to the regulations as it would be inaccessible is probably why it never is earthed.

 

[james stas]

you can get clear plastic though, would installation be better if capping was clear?