HELP my company has signed off work I haven’t done in my name

[Pez5480]

My company have fully signed a test certificate in my name on a job that I have not been to, worked on or tested.

The work was done by a 4th year apprentice and tested by him as well. The test certificate was also filled incorrectly.

Is this illegal? And what would you guys do about this?

Cheers

 

[Pez5480]

You are the only tester? Which means only you carry a test kit?

So is there jobs they’re not testing at all? Or just making up values and using your signature which is saved on the software?

How badly do you need this job? Because I can see this causing a bit of a rift.

The NICEIC may not do anything other than telling the company that test sheets x,y,z etc are not valid and need resubmitted… which they’ll do without telling you again, and as far as NIC is concerned, all fine.

Saying that, is there a member on here that is registered with NICEIC and can ask them hypothetically what should happen in this case?

The company needs to send you on every job that’s been fraudulently tested and get you to do it again… however you may never know how many over and above what they might say need doing.
I don’t know if NIC would divulge that information. Ie “give me a list of all test sheets with my signature from this company”

Taking the legal route, and taking it as far as you want to go is really going to cause friction…
Losing your job, and then claiming unfair dismissal on top. Your name could still be being used without your knowledge.

NIC should be your first port of call, but unless you need this job desperately, I’d consult a solicitor.

You will need a strong mental attitude to take it as far as this. It might ruin the company.

I am the only person in the company that is allowed to test and inspect. But the apprentice and “operations manager” have a tester that they share for some reason. I only found this out when the job in question was being done and I asked how are they going to test it knowing full well my tester was at home.

Sadly yes my signature is saved on the software.

I can definitely see this causing drama but I value my qualifications and future a lot more than this job! And I would hate for someone to possibly get hurt from dodgy wiring.

I’m going to try and contract the niceic today and see what they say and also ask if they can tell me all the documents that are in my name, hopefully they can do this.

I have a meeting with the boss tomorrow about it all so will see what they say about it and if they will do what I asked and send me on every single job that’s been signed in my name to retest or I’m gunna have to look into the legal route just so I can cover my ---.

 

[LukeD]

If you feel it need to go legal.... Jo Keddie - Winckworth Sherwood LLP - https://wslaw.co.uk/our-people/jo-keddie/#:~:text=Jo%20is%20the%20Firm's%20Senior,UK%20businesses%2C%20partnerships%20and%20individuals.

 

[Froggie]

There are legal protections in place for situations like this. See Whistleblowing for employees - https://www.gov.uk/whistleblowing

 

[timhoward]

I can't speak for NICEIC, but if it is similar to NAPIT, all NICEIC are doing is providing a means of generating pretty branded certificates and in one sense they don't have any interest in how you use this tool, you could equally be using a variety of tools e.g. electraform or easycert etc.

I suspect the only interest NICEIC will have is:
a) any certificates you show them on an assessment
b) if any jobs have been notified to LABC in your name without you even knowing about it
c) if your membership credentials are being used by others; there could be clauses about this in your terms and conditions and they may even deem you to be the one at fault for 'allowing it to happen', as harsh as that seems.

Who pays for the NICEIC membership, you, or the company? Is the company the NICEIC member with you as the QS, or are you employed as a qualified sparks who is an NICEIC member?

 

[Pez5480]

I can't speak for NICEIC, but if it is similar to NAPIT, all NICEIC are doing is providing a means of generating pretty branded certificates and in one sense they don't have any interest in how you use this tool, you could equally be using a variety of tools e.g. electraform or easycert etc.

I suspect the only interest NICEIC will have is:
a) any certificates you show them on an assessment
b) if any jobs have been notified to LABC in your name without you even knowing about it
c) if your membership credentials are being used by others; there could be clauses about this in your terms and conditions and they may even deem you to be the one at fault for 'allowing it to happen', as harsh as that seems.

Who pays for the NICEIC membership, you, or the company? Is the company the NICEIC member with you as the QS, or are you employed as a qualified sparks who is an NICEIC member?

The company pays for membership, and the company is niceic member with me as their qualified spark but I’ve just spoken to the niceic and they said I’m not on the software for the company as anything. I think the non qualified project manager has set him self as the QS and my signature has just been put on the software to go on the sheets

 

[timhoward]

The company pays for membership, and the company is niceic member with me as their qualified spark but I’ve just spoken to the niceic and they said I’m not on the software for the company as anything. I think the non qualified project manager has set him self as the QS and my signature has just been put on the software to go on the sheets

So from NICEIC's point of view, the company is doing the work and the person they have listed as 'qualified supervisor' is taking responsibility for the accuracy of records, and will be the one they contact for annual assessments etc.
This could get quite comical, the QS gets asked for 3 jobs to assess, they choose one, he asks the sparks who 'signed the cert' to come and prove test results and you say 'I've never been there in my live guv' in front of the assessor.
The company are setting themselves up for a fall here.

Your work records can probably prove you have been nowhere near most of these installations, and I'd put a letter in writing stating that you've become aware of certificates carrying your name fraudulently. List the cert numbers you've found.

A completely separate matter is whether the QS should be a QS, but that might be a different tiger to poke a different day.

 

[LukeD]

I can't speak for NICEIC, but if it is similar to NAPIT, all NICEIC are doing is providing a means of generating pretty branded certificates and in one sense they don't have any interest in how you use this tool, you could equally be using a variety of tools e.g. electraform or easycert etc.

I suspect the only interest NICEIC will have is:
a) any certificates you show them on an assessment
b) if any jobs have been notified to LABC in your name without you even knowing about it
c) if your membership credentials are being used by others; there could be clauses about this in your terms and conditions and they may even deem you to be the one at fault for 'allowing it to happen', as harsh as that seems.

Who pays for the NICEIC membership, you, or the company? Is the company the NICEIC member with you as the QS, or are you employed as a qualified sparks who is an NICEIC member?

So from NICEIC's point of view, the company is doing the work and the person they have listed as 'qualified supervisor' is taking responsibility for the accuracy of records, and will be the one they contact for annual assessments etc.
This could get quite comical, the QS gets asked for 3 jobs to assess, they choose one, he asks the sparks who 'signed the cert' to come and prove test results and you say 'I've never been there in my live guv' in front of the assessor.
The company are setting themselves up for a fall here.

Your work records can probably prove you have been nowhere near most of these installations, and I'd put a letter in writing stating that you've become aware of certificates carrying your name fraudulently. List the cert numbers you've found.

A completely separate matter is whether the QS should be a QS, but that might be a different tiger to poke a different day.

Very dodgy situation . I would want a very urgent meeting and to get the boss to establish /acknowledge whats taken place .To have that witnessed/signed and then establish whats going to happen as of TODAY in regards to any other certs been issued . I would not want to be around if things did get bad and you are been "torn apart" by the system. If you are unhappy , Follow whatever HR etc guidelines say and have meetings witnessed .

 

[Midwest]

I guess this sort of situation happens across the country with larger firms, and them not wanting to employ x amount of QS's. Difference is, is if your aware of the situation or not. In OP's case, would not of been happy to rely on this other persons testing, and would not sign off testing. I've had to drag test certificates out of electrical contractors doing work at my place of employment. I have some doubts whether any actual testing has been done.

As already said, if your employer doesn't agree to comply terms & conditions, which BS7671 model forms, and online software allude to, it would need the OP to consider his employment with this company.

 

[Spoon]

I have a meeting with the boss tomorrow about it all so will see what they say about it and if they will do what I asked and send me on every single job that’s been signed in my name to retest or I’m gunna have to look into the legal route just so I can cover my ---.

Make notes of the conversation while in the meeting. After the meeting send an email out to whoever attended the meeting, with what has been discussed. C.Y.A. (or record the meeting on your phone)

 

[Pez5480]

Make notes of the conversation while in the meeting. After the meeting send an email out to whoever attended the meeting, with what has been discussed. C.Y.A. (or record the meeting on your phone)

Yeah I was thinking about recording the meeting on my phone

 

[LukeD]

Yeah I was thinking about recording the meeting on my phone

That would need permission from all involved

 

[Eddy Currents]

That would need permission from all involved

I'm happy to be corrected but a normal person is not subject to GDPR rules unlike a business or organisation and it is not illegal to record a conversation
Sharing that recorded conversation is a different matter and could open up a civil claim for violation of privacy

If it were me, I would 100% record the conversation to cover my a**e and wouldn't think twice about it

 

[Sparky Ninja]

On behalf of the client, there is also the 'The Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations 2008' to think about.

 

[LukeD]

I'm happy to be corrected but a normal person is not subject to GDPR rules unlike a business or organisation and it is not illegal to record a conversation
Sharing that recorded conversation is a different matter and could open up a civil claim for violation of privacy

If it were me, I would 100% record the conversation to cover my a**e and wouldn't think twice about it

Tricky ..... IT would be better to say you wish to record . As Some contracts might have a clause about "recording meetings secretly etc ) Also it forms a professional atmosphere as each party is aware that what ever they say can be referred to later . Its also possible sometimes for a person to claim entrapment . Also ... if the OP was informed at the beginning of any meeting that any covert recording is not to take place etc .It could form "Gross misconduct" ?? A meeting can be "witnessed " At this stage , I would not want to lose a fight over something small. They might also be very worried if they are in the wrong and if so might use a very good employment lawyer to somehow "get you " on a technicality .

 

[LukeD]

Quick read : Can Employees record disciplinary meetings in the UK? - https://www.crane-staples.co.uk/news/can-employees-record-disciplinary-meetings/#:~:text=In%20employment%20matters%2C%20employees%20and,the%20employment%20tribunal%20or%20court).