Help needed for buying the right 16a plug please!

[Toneyz]

Then you should know what your power requirements are.

 

[davesparks]

A promoter is putting on a one-off event in this pub and has hired my speakers for the night. I'm trying to find and secure the correct equipment - that's literally why I made this thread

Right, that makes a bit more sense now, it's normal to assume that anyone posting on this forum about a job is carrying out a permanent installation.

 

[davesparks]

A promoter is putting on a one-off event in this pub and has hired my speakers for the night. I'm trying to find and secure the correct equipment - that's literally why I made this thread

Right, that makes a bit more sense now, it's normal to assume that anyone posting on this forum about a job is carrying out a permanent installation.

 

[toby lee]

my bad, should have specified. So I need to hire/get a 32a to 13a distro, or will a 32a to 16a distro and 16a-13a converter cables do?

 

[davesparks]

my bad, should have specified. So I need to hire/get a 32a to 13a distro, or will a 32a to 16a distro and 16a-13a converter cables do?

If you're breaking it down to 13A I don't understand the need for any distro if there are 13A outlets available.
If your equipment is causing something to trip then plugging it in via a distro will only serve to cause the protective devices in the distro to trip.

You need to find out what is tripping and why, it could be a sign that there is a dangerous fault.

When was your equipment last properly tested and what were the test results?

 

[Pete999]

A promoter is putting on a one-off event in this pub and has hired my speakers for the night. I'm trying to find and secure the correct equipment - that's literally why I made this thread

Well he has hired your speakers, down to him to wire it up safely Toby, end of, your part is done.

 

[Pete999]

If you're breaking it down to 13A I don't understand the need for any distro if there are 13A outlets available.
If your equipment is causing something to trip then plugging it in via a distro will only serve to cause the protective devices in the distro to trip.

You need to find out what is tripping and why, it could be a sign that there is a dangerous fault.

When was your equipment last properly tested and what were the test results?

Yes, was the equipment subject to ISITEE (PATesting)

 

[davesparks]

Well he has hired your speakers, down to him to wire it up safely Toby, end of, your part is done.

Not necessarily, a lot of small hires like this will include deliver, setup, operation, pack up etc etc rather than being a straightforward hire or equipment.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

point me in the direction of the right 13a socket-16a plug to buy.

Not wanting to be pedantic, but you mean "16A plug to 13A socket." Always refer to an assembly in the direction the line current flows. When people refer to something "to plug", if they really mean this, it may be extremely dangerous.

What power output is your PA system? If it's many Kilowatts, running multiple high power amps from a 13A plug may not be the best setup.

Indeed, although it is the power consumption that is most relevant here. Power amplifiers, especially in the low budget disco/pub band category, often sport ridiculous specifications, (generally "peak power" sustainable for a fraction of a second) which are completely meaningless and bear little correlation to their 230V current draw.

It seems like the plug is 32a then if a 16a plug won't fit. It's not my pub and I've just been hired to do the PA system so not within my power to get an electrician in. The system is about 4000 watts RMS. So my best course of action would be to get/hire a distro?

I guessed it would be 32A, as these are fairly common in entertainment venues, versus 16A being relatively uncommon indoors, unless installed for the purpose of powering installed equipment. A 16A socket is not much more useful indoors to a PA provider, than a 13A.

As your system is rated 4000WRMS, a single 13A socket will be sufficient, you really don't need to complicate things.

You should establish if the 13A socket/s you are using at the venue trip just with YOUR equipment (which would suggest the issue lies with your gear, or do the venue staff know there is a problem with them - for example, do the cleaners have problems using them? If a known venue issue, they need to get fixed and I would suggest the least you do is avoid using circuit/s with known problems.

Yes, was the equipment subject to ISITEE (PATesting)

As Pete says, this is important. Irrespective of whether you are dry hiring, offering a deliver & collect, or a managed service, you should be able to prove due diligence in respect of maintaining your own equipment in a safe condition. It is likely your insurer will insist on proof of ISITEE, many venues likewise. Inspection & testing may also identify electrical issues with your equipment.

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Indeed, although it is the power consumption that is most relevant here. Power amplifiers, especially in the low budget disco/pub band category, often sport ridiculous specifications, (generally "peak power" sustainable for a fraction of a second) which are completely meaningless and bear little correlation to their 230V current draw.

Agreed but I figured the OP was more likely to know to the output power than the input requirements. As it turned out, the answer of 4000W RMS suggested a higher end rig and meant you could give a useful suggestion of how best to connect up.

 

[Deleted member 105166]

As it turned out, the answer of 4000W RMS suggested a higher end rig and meant you could give a useful suggestion of how best to connect up.

Sorry Jim, I have to disagree with you on this point. For example, this £250 amplifier, which is very popular within disco/band circles carries a 4000W badge, however is typically found driving two separate channels of audio with transducers rated at 4Ω or 8Ω, and drawing no more than 3-4A.

I've lost count of the times I've provided stage power for DJs and bands that bring their own PAs to events, often consisting of 2 or 3 of the type of amplifier I've linked to above, all happily running together through their mandatory off-white supermarket branded 4-way block. I'll meter their circuit around 10A-11A... then listen to said DJ or bassist's drivel about their "awesome 20k sound system"...

A power rating alone absolutely does not suggest a rig is high end. In fact the opposite is far more true. A professional loudspeaker cabinet with similar driver arrangement may be 15dB more efficient than it's "disco" equivalent. Compare a budget cabinet rated at 95dB/1W/1m with a high end box rated at 105dB/1W/1m. All things being even, the budget box needs 4,096W to play to 126dB, whereas the professional cabinet only needs 128W... and that's leaving aside thermal compression, which would make the gulf even greater.

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Sorry Jim, I have to disagree with you on this point. For example, this £250 amplifier, which is very popular within disco/band circles carries a 4000W badge, however is typically found driving two separate channels of audio with transducers rated at 4Ω or 8Ω, and drawing no more than 3-4A.

I've lost count of the times I've provided stage power for DJs and bands that bring their own PAs to events, often consisting of 2 or 3 of the type of amplifier I've linked to above, all happily running together through their mandatory off-white supermarket branded 4-way block. I'll meter their circuit around 10A-11A... then listen to said DJ or bassist's drivel about their "awesome 20k sound system"...

A power rating alone absolutely does not suggest a rig is high end. In fact the opposite is far more true. A professional loudspeaker cabinet with similar driver arrangement may be 15dB more efficient than it's "disco" equivalent. Compare a budget cabinet rated at 95dB/1W/1m with a high end box rated at 105dB/1W/1m. All things being even, the budget box needs 4,096W to play to 126dB, whereas the professional cabinet only needs 128W... and that's leaving aside thermal compression, which would make the gulf even greater.

All fair points. I'm making assumptions about the kit based on very little info. At least RMS power was quoted and not some silly peak power figure like the Behringer amp.

 

[Pete999]

Hello,

I'm putting a PA system in a pub and the mains trips easily so I need to use the blue 16a wall socket. Last time I bought a 13a socket-to-16a plug but it was slightly too small and didn't fit - the end of the plug is 41 mm in diameter, and the socket diameter of the inner ring where the plastic of the plug is supposed to go into is 42 mm.

I'm struggling to find the right plug to buy because manufacturers don't seem to list any info about plug sizes. Would be hugely appreciated if someone could tell me what to look out for, or to point me in the direction of the right 13a socket-16a plug to buy.

Bought that new plug yet Toby?

 

[EalingBadger]

If the system is truly 4K RMS (and some are despite the generally valid comments from others above about the highly imaginative specs suggested by some manufacturers) then a single 13A socket will most definitely not be sufficient.

I run my Turbosound rig (4.5K FOH + 1.5K of on-stage monitoring) off a 32A circuit because it needs it.

It only needs it 1% of the time, but when it needs it then it truly needs it.

For the vast majority of the time (death metal bands not withstanding!) PA systems only draw a tiny fraction of the current implied by their maximum RMS power ratings but the last thing you want is for the circuit breaker to pop at the crescendos.

 

[EalingBadger]

Sorry Jim, I have to disagree with you on this point. For example, this £250 amplifier, which is very popular within disco/band circles carries a 4000W badge, however is typically found driving two separate channels of audio with transducers rated at 4Ω or 8Ω, and drawing no more than 3-4A.

I've lost count of the times I've provided stage power for DJs and bands that bring their own PAs to events, often consisting of 2 or 3 of the type of amplifier I've linked to above, all happily running together through their mandatory off-white supermarket branded 4-way block. I'll meter their circuit around 10A-11A... then listen to said DJ or bassist's drivel about their "awesome 20k sound system"...

A power rating alone absolutely does not suggest a rig is high end. In fact the opposite is far more true. A professional loudspeaker cabinet with similar driver arrangement may be 15dB more efficient than it's "disco" equivalent. Compare a budget cabinet rated at 95dB/1W/1m with a high end box rated at 105dB/1W/1m. All things being even, the budget box needs 4,096W to play to 126dB, whereas the professional cabinet only needs 128W... and that's leaving aside thermal compression, which would make the gulf even greater.

Never mind a so-called 4,000W amp, back in 2011 I repeatedly challenged Behringer to justify how they manage to supply 3,000W "RMS" via a 13A fuse given that no amplifier is ever 100% efficient.

Naturally, I received no coherent reply and eventually they just stopped responding altogether.

First level support clearly didn't have a clue about the point I was trying to make so I insisted that they pass it to engineering for an answer. Not surprisingly, "engineering" declined to respond.