UK Hi everyone, new to the Forum, no electrical knowledge

[Murphynico]

Hello everyone, I'm a new homeowner member and would be really grateful for some advice as I know virtually nothing about electrics. My question/worry involves two single ovens I've just had fitted that the electrician has plugged into a double socket. There is also an isolation switch fitted in the cupboard. I have read that a double socket is good for 20 amps, these two ovens are 2.85kw each and are fitted with 13 amp plugs. Doesn't this add up to 26 amps being used if both ovens are on at the same time? Isn't that a potential fire hazard? Previously in the same place was a slot in double oven cooker wired in with a thick cable. I have also had an induction hob fitted and that has been wired in. I have mentioned my worries to the electrician who tried to explain things to me (went over my head) and ultimately said a double socket is fine. But I'm still unsure and it's niggling me.

I've attached a photo. Any help would be appreciated. Thankyou

 

[Murphynico]

well, above is a snapshot of what electricians think to his installation so far.
feel free to point him in the direction of the forum if he wants to read or respond.

however, you should be expecting and insisting on some paperwork.
if it includes a new circuit, then it should be an electrical installation report.
if it is just a change to an existing circuit it should be a minor works certificate.

either way, it should be designed, installed, tested, certified. In that order.

Thankyou, it is just a change to an existing circuit. I'll make sure I get a minor works certificate. Do you think the rest of the wiring, including that circular thing with wires sticking out looks OK? It's difficult to challenge someone on the quality of their work when you don't know a thing about what you're looking at

 

[DPG]

Thankyou, it is just a change to an existing circuit. I'll make sure I get a minor works certificate. Do you think the rest of the wiring, including that circular thing with wires sticking out looks OK? It's difficult to challenge someone on the quality of their work when you don't know a thing about what you're looking at

No, that type of junction box has no cable grip facility, and so the cables should be clipped to the surface. Either that or a different type of junction box should be used.

 

[Murphynico]

2 x single sockets would have been better and more likely to comply with the reg's.
however there are issues with what has been shown that are far away from the standards of most professional electricians.

Thankyou. Could you tell me what other problems you've noticed please?

 

[Murphynico]

No, that type of junction box has no cable grip facility, and so the cables should be clipped to the surface. Either that or a different type of junction box.

Oh blimey, thankyou for highlighting that. Not looking forward to the upcoming confrontation....

 

[DPG]

Oh blimey, thankyou for highlighting that. Not looking forward to the upcoming confrontation....

It's never pleasant this sort of thing. But you've paid an electrician and so you shouldn't receive a bad DIY budget.

As above, show him this thread if he isn't too forthcoming.

Keep us posted!

 

[Murphynico]

---

"Rush" is only one of a number of applicable adjectives to this job, I fear. IP issues around that unmounted 'flush' box for a start.
2.85kW at 230V = 12.4A, which is a bit close to the limit for continuous current through a 13A plug in any case. The ovens won't be drawing this current continuously when they're up to temperature, but will be for a considerable time before that. I'd expect to see deterioration of the plug and socket after a year or two of use for that reason alone, even if the sockets were single ones.
Yes, the limit the manufacturers state for a double 13A socket is around 20A, but can that be exceeded here, anyway? What size is the cable going into that socket, and what does it connect to at it's other end? Does it go back to the consumer unit?

Beat me to it by seconds!?

The cable going into the double socket is approx 0.5cm wide. It comes from the round thing with 3 wires coming from it, the one just mentioned, then a flat one approx 1.25cm wide and another thick black round one. I don't know for sure if it goes directly back to the consumer unit. Can I ask what an IP issue means please.

 

[Murphynico]

It's never pleasant this sort of thing. But you've paid an electrician and so you shouldn't receive a bad DIY budget.

As above, show him this thread if he isn't too forthcoming.

Keep us posted!

Thankyou, on the plus side, I haven't paid him yet as he's coming back to do some other stuff. On the negative side I've now lost confidence in him. This is a chap in his 60s with his own Ltd company who I would have thought knew his stuff

 

[ipf]

Don't panic. It may not be as bad as it seems.
Quite a few unknowns. You mention an isolator in the cupboard. Does it isolate the d socket? What is it's rating? Is it on it's own circuit and, if so, details?
I would recommend separate isolation for each unit.....but who knows what your spark will make of it. He's the man on site and may have suitable explanations.
How difficult is access, if it's underneath kitchen units?
Even if loose, the socket is on a metal backbox meant to be 'in the wall' rather than a surface pattress........wrong, but not earth shattering.
More than anything, it's the standard of work. The joint box, although not suitable according to regs, looks to have been made off well....but is it involved with the socket? Is that a flex feeding something else?
We guess, you see, whilst he is on site and knows the details.
The main point, though, is 20amp maximum on a d socket.

 

[Murphynico]

A bodge job if ever I saw one, no IP protection on the cable entry, box not fixed, and the JB is ll wrong. Did an electrician do this? if so he want's to give up. Terrible job,

Thankyou. Yes he's an electrician, he's in his 60s so has probably been working for 40 years! I don't know what he's thinking of

 

[Pete999]

Thankyou. Yes he's an electrician, he's in his 60s so has probably been working for 40 years! I don't know what he's thinking of

The mind boggles

 

[telectrix]

send him this link. it might suit his abilities better:

5 Day Intensive Plumbing Course - YTA Training

5 day intensive hands on plumbing course covering plumbing in bathrooms, radiators and kitchens. Plumbing fault finding, soldering and pipe bending.

www.ytatraining.com

on 2nd thoughts, maybe not.\i'd hate to see some poor sod in thi situation:

 

[Murphynico]

Don't panic. It may not be as bad as it seems.
Quite a few unknowns. You mention an isolator in the cupboard. Does it isolate the d socket? What is it's rating? Is it on it's own circuit and, if so, details?
I would recommend separate isolation for each unit.....but who knows what your spark will make of it. He's the man on site and may have suitable explanations.
How difficult is access, if it's underneath kitchen units?
Even if loose, the socket is on a metal backbox meant to be 'in the wall' rather than a surface pattress........wrong, but not earth shattering.
More than anything, it's the standard of work. The joint box, although not suitable according to regs, looks to have been made off well....but is it involved with the socket? Is that a flex feeding something else?
We guess, you see, whilst he is on site and knows the details.
The main point, though, is 20amp maximum on a d socket.

Thankyou, my blood pressure has just come down slightly... I've just had a look, the isolator is a large plug socket comprising of a single plug socket with a big switch next to it with 'cooker' written underneath. I don't know what the rating is, I only know it turns off both ovens and the induction job. A flat grey cable approx 0.5cm width seems to come out of this 'isolator' and is wired into the flat black round box. Another cable comes out of the black round box and goes into the d socket. A third cable, black, thick and round also goes into the round box, I'm wondering if this is the original cable that the previous slot in cooker was wired up to? The 'isolater' is fastened in the back adjacent base cupboard. The wiring in the photo is underneath one of the ovens, next to the cupboard with the 'isolator' in. The electrics were done before the ovens were pushed back against the wall. The oven blanking plates and plinths haven't been fitted yet so there's still room to manoeuvre a bit. What do you think? Thankyou

 

[Murphynico]

The mind boggles

send him this link. it might suit his abilities better:

5 Day Intensive Plumbing Course - YTA Training

5 day intensive hands on plumbing course covering plumbing in bathrooms, radiators and kitchens. Plumbing fault finding, soldering and pipe bending.

www.ytatraining.com

on 2nd thoughts, maybe not.\i'd hate to see some poor sod in thi situation:

Poor bloke!!

 

[telectrix]

Thankyou, my blood pressure has just come down slightly... I've just had a look, the isolator is a large plug socket comprising of a single plug socket with a big switch next to it with 'cooker' written underneath. I don't know what the rating is, I only know it turns off both ovens and the induction job. A flat grey cable approx 0.5cm width seems to come out of this 'isolator' and is wired into the flat black round box. Another cable comes out of the black round box and goes into the d socket. A third cable, black, thick and round also goes into the round box, I'm wondering if this is the original cable that the previous slot in cooker was wired up to? The 'isolater' is fastened in the back adjacent base cupboard. The wiring in the photo is underneath one of the ovens, next to the cupboard with the 'isolator' in. The electrics were done before the ovens were pushed back against the wall. The oven blanking plates and plinths haven't been fitted yet so there's still room to manoeuvre a bit. What do you think? Thankyou

that cooker isolator is more than adequate for your ovens and hob.jist want a spark with a brain to fit it out correctly.

 

[pc1966]

If the ovens are designed for 13A sockets, and you have a proper cooker feed from your CU (consumer unit = fuse box) and isolator switch, then really the only things wrong are:

• Having a double socket (around 20A rating) instead of two singles (13A+13A)
• Not having the lot supported by some sort of wooden frame or similar so the "fixed" wiring is really fixed and not flexed any time an oven comes out for service, etc.

So not really a big deal to sort it out acceptably well.