High Zs on auxiliary circuits | on ElectriciansForums

Discuss High Zs on auxiliary circuits in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Joined
May 1, 2023
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Location
Middlesbrough
Hi
I have a distribution board controlling conveyor belt in which all auxiliary circuits for start/stop switches, emergency buttons, etc are supplied through 230V/230V separating transformer.where secondary winding is earthed on one end. I've got high Zs readings for all those control circuits (~20hms) protected by 2Amp circuit breakers
It's 230V so low voltage fixed installation requiring inspection and testing with 0.4s disconnection time (TNC-S). Can't find anything in the regs how to treat this situation. Would it be departure due to DB manufacturer design?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
The use of a separating transformer isolates the control circuits from the main supply. As a result, the Zs measurements on the secondary side of the transformer may not directly reflect the impedance back to the origin of the supply.


The high Zs readings could be attributed to the inherent impedance of the transformer and the isolated nature of the secondary circuit.


Ensure the 2A circuit breakers used on the control circuits are appropriately rated for the expected fault current levels and the impedance of the circuit.


Verify that the high Zs readings still allow for adequate fault protection. For control circuits, especially where a separating transformer is used, it might be necessary to assess the fault protection differently from typical final circuits.
BS 7671 provides guidance on the use of separating transformers and protection against electric shock.

Regulation 413.1.3.2 mentions that circuits supplied by separating transformers should provide disconnection in the event of a fault to the conductive parts.


Regulation 413.1.3.5 states that where a separating transformer supplies a control circuit, the overcurrent protection must disconnect in a time not exceeding that required for the primary circuit. Given the secondary winding is earthed at one end, standard disconnection times for TN systems may apply.


Check the distribution board and transformer manufacturer’s instructions. The design of the distribution board, including the use of the separating transformer, may have specific requirements or recommendations for achieving appropriate protection and Zs readings.


Ensure that the earthing of the secondary winding is sound and compliant with the manufacturer's recommendations and BS 7671.
Inspect all connections and wiring for integrity and proper installation practices, ensuring no loose connections that could contribute to high impedance.

Assess if the circuit design, including the transformer and protection devices, meets the fault protection requirements considering the high Zs readings.


Consider whether additional protective measures, such as residual current devices (RCDs), could provide enhanced fault protection given the high Zs values.


If the high Zs readings are found to be within acceptable limits when considering the specific nature of the installation (e.g., isolated control circuits), document the findings and rationale.


If they are not within acceptable limits, consider it a departure and document it accordingly, along with any risk assessment or mitigation measures taken.


The high Zs readings in your scenario, due to the nature of the isolating transformer, may require a detailed assessment beyond standard loop impedance expectations.

Coordination with the distribution board and transformer manufacturer, as well as adherence to BS 7671 guidelines, is essential to ensure safety and compliance. If the design inherently leads to higher Zs readings but still ensures safe operation, it might be documented as a permissible departure, backed by appropriate risk assessments and justifications.
 
Is this part of the fixed electrical installation or is it a machine with its own control system?

Most of the time (but not always)
For the purpose of a fixed installation report or EICR i would test as far as a machine isolator and only make note of anything further down the line if i saw for instance damaged cables or broken covers exposing live parts.
 
Is this part of the fixed electrical installation or is it a machine with its own control system?

Most of the time (but not always)
For the purpose of a fixed installation report or EICR i would test as far as a machine isolator and only make note of anything further down the line if i saw for instance damaged cables or broken covers exposing live parts.
It's a DB with own control system and cables creating fixed installation in the building. The worst is 3phase frequency converter next to this DB and supplied from it, it's changing 50Hz down to 20Hz and then supplying 3phase motor 50meters away. The motor cable up to the isolator is fixed to the wall so fixed installation. Is Megger even able to test anything other then 50Hz?
I'm digging through documentations to find out.
 
I think you are overthinking this.
I have never seen a distribution board with an inverter in it.
Just because a cable is clipped to a wall, doesn’t make it part of the fixed installation.
A pragmatic approach may well be required here.
 

Reply to High Zs on auxiliary circuits in the UK Electrical Forum area at ElectriciansForums.net

Similar Threads

  • Question
Yeah I doubt it's normally an issue. Split load boards and SWA incomers are likely the only trouble.
Replies
16
Views
3K
  • Question
And here is the said schematic. This is the speed control section, showing the converter, drive motor, magnetic amplifier and related components...
    • Like
    • Informative
Replies
9
Views
2K
I would start off with what Pete posted check the accessible connections especially corrosion and good mechanical glanding with earth fly leads...
Replies
7
Views
5K
Toneyz
T
Just an FYI, there are contractors that do directional drilling. Some years ago at a previous job we looked into using one to link the network...
Replies
13
Views
7K
S
  • Question
Requirements are that the line and neutral both need isolating. A 2 pole rcd or 2 pole mains switch on single phase systems will account for the...
Replies
59
Views
7K

OFFICIAL SPONSORS

Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Electrician Courses Green Electrical Goods PCB Way Electrical Goods - Electrical Tools - Brand Names Pushfit Wire Connectors Electric Underfloor Heating Electrician Courses
These Official Forum Sponsors May Provide Discounts to Regular Forum Members - If you would like to sponsor us then CLICK HERE and post a thread with who you are, and we'll send you some stats etc

YOUR Unread Posts

This website was designed, optimised and is hosted by untold.media Operating under the name Untold Media since 2001.
Back
Top