UK Home Survey question?

[Dunceg]

Hi,

We have just had a house survey done on my late parents home. The surveyor has picked up the fact that main electricity feed to the house comes in to the kitchen and the meters are attached inside the kitchen cupboard. This kitchen was fitted professionally and electrics completed by an electrician around 15years ago.
The houses were built in the late 60’s and once had a coal porch (?), side entrance. Probably 95% of this type of house have blocked this doorway and extended their kitchens in to the space. My family did this at least 30years ago and the same kitchen layout has been there ever since.
So the issue being that the main outside wall was knocked down and therefore the electricity feed is located on the cabinet, where the wall was removed. This has been the case through several kitchen changes and never seen as an issue. Even having a new smart meter fitted, no issues by the fitter.
Fast forward to today when having a survey done, it’s been flagged as an issue. Clearly the main feed cable isn’t long enough to be able to move it to a wall so where do we stand? Every house in the area that’s made this change would have the same issue and therefore assume theirs are attached to the cupboard.

Thoughts please?

 

[plugsandsparks]

Pictures may help, also what is the actual issue?

 

[Dunceg]

Pictures may help, also what is the actual issue?

The issue is that it shouldn’t be attached to the cupboard carcass. Is that true? Two kitchen companies (over the years) long with electrician's have placed/replaced in the same spot, along with the change to a smart meter being fitted. No one has said it shouldn’t be done like this, until now. The surveyor is saying it’s a problem. A problem for the new owners when they want to replace the kitchen?!?! So just trying to find if it’s an illegal installation I guess.

 

[DefyG]

Illegal or not, my concern would be that they are mounted on a combustible material, although must say I have seen may like that and even where mounted on a solid wall cupboard back and sides cut out around them which is equally 'as bad' being a combustible material as the meter and cut-out etc do not afford the same protection as a metal consumer unit from fire.

 

[littlespark]

I think the issue is complete lack of access even to read the meter.
What is the distance between the wall that the equipment is fixed to, and the unit wall housing the washing machine (is it?)

This is just the incoming cable and fuse.. where is the consumer unit situated?



Kitchen fitters are in partnership with the sales team. They will fit whatever is given, in as quick a time as possible.

Smart meter installers are not much better.

 

[DefyG]

I think the issue is complete lack of access even to read the meter.

Not good I agree, but if enough room to change the meter to a smart meter (the meter engineer wouldn't have if it was too tight) there would be enough access to read it.

 

[Dunceg]

I think the issue is complete lack of access even to read the meter.
What is the distance between the wall that the equipment is fixed to, and the unit wall housing the washing machine (is it?)

This is just the incoming cable and fuse.. where is the consumer unit situated?



Kitchen fitters are in partnership with the sales team. They will fit whatever is given, in as quick a time as possible.

Smart meter installers are not much better.

The picture is deceptive. It is actually a 550mm wide cupboard. It’s not a great pic as I don’t live near the house to take a fresh one and had to screen grab a picture from another id taken of something else. The access is fine and the meter can easily be read. Even my late father and his aging eyes and creaky knees didn’t have any issues
My parents have lived in that house for 50years. The kitchen layout has been that way for around 40 of those and that has been the 3rd kitchen in its place. The consumer box is in the cupboard under the stairs.
The kitchen company, small independents, has used an independent electrician each time to fit/change electrics for each kitchen update over the years and no one has said that’s not correct. The last one being 15years ago. So i’m not expecting it to fulfill current regulations. Most homes of this age wouldn’t.

I hear the comments about it being in a cupboard and combustable etc but this has been allowed to happen and passed as acceptable by electricians. My uncle’s house is identical and has the same placement, inside a cupboard but with no kitchen company involvement so I’m not looking for blaming any trade. The smart meter fitter also fitted a new meter with no questions. The meter can’t be easily moved on to a solid wall… the main feed coming in is as is which is probably why it’s remained where it is.
I’m not qualified or have any diy experience to pass comment. The surveyor says we should sort it in case the new buyers want to put in a new kitchen… I'm looking for reasonable reasons as to why that would be the case that I need to look ahead to what the new owners may or may not want to do. Hence why asking is it illegal to place it there? or if as a qualified electrician, they’ve chosen to keep putting it back in the same place if that’s not the done thing? Or is it just that it’s not ideal in that place but is the best option in the circumstances? Bear in mind how long it’s been in situ.

 

[Risteard]

It's totally wrong for it to be boxed in like that in my opinion. It should never have been done.

 

[Dunceg]

It's totally wrong for it to be boxed in like that in my opinion. It should never have been done.

So, is that just your opinion or was that regulations/rules at the time that stated it shouldn’t never have been fitted that way?
Apologies if that seems a blunt point but we can all have an opinion and that’s fine, it’s good to hear people’s thoughts but I’m trying to figure out the ruling on it. I’ve googled it and some comments say they see it all the time so I guess it’s not uncommon and given that there are probably 10’s of thousands of this same house (ex council) here and 95% of them have all moved their kitchens in to this same space.

In your opinion, what are the solutions?

 

[littlespark]

To me, the fuse head, meter and RCCB are directly mounted onto the original wood that the electric company used all those years ago. That is then fixed to the cabinet carcass wood.

Is this what they are reporting?

Unless the kitchen cabinet isn’t fixed to the wall behind it securely, it’s fine as it is.
If new owners want a new kitchen, they’ll figure out how to do it.

 

[Dunceg]

To me, the fuse head, meter and RCCB are directly mounted onto the original wood that the electric company used all those years ago. That is then fixed to the cabinet carcass wood.

Is this what they are reporting?

Unless the kitchen cabinet isn’t fixed to the wall behind it securely, it’s fine as it is.
If new owners want a new kitchen, they’ll figure out how to do it.

Yes, you are correct. Everything is mounted on the original board and that board is what is fixed to the carcass. The units are all fixed to the wall. The estate agent spoke with the surveyor after the survey and he wasn’t happy about it. Something along the lines of if the new owners want to change the kitchen?!
It was clearly not an issue for my parents but I know what rules and regulations change and just want clarification, I guess, that it’s more of a ‘not ideal position’ for it rather than a ‘it should never have been allowed’ scenario and it’s been done dodgy illegally (if that’s the correct way to look at it).

 

[Dunceg]

I just wanted to say I do appreciate everyone’s comments, thanks! It’s a bit of a minefield.

 

[plugsandsparks]

It is hard to work out from the photo. Certainly there are many many domestic and commercial installations where the service head components and meter are housed in cupboards of various descriptions. I have not yet had to declare an installation un-satisfactory, unless they have piled high a load of other stuff inside the cupboard disallowing free air and or storage of volatile chemicals.
We all have to tread carefully about using the word "illegal" - we are not lawyers and BS7671 is a code of practice and i do not believe it specifically states you cannot allow a service head in a cupboard. For that install objections would come from National Grid or the meter supplier.
My opinion only is that if the buyer does not like it to choose another house, otherwise its buyer beware and it is what it is.

 

[Dunceg]

It is hard to work out from the photo. Certainly there are many many domestic and commercial installations where the service head components and meter are housed in cupboards of various descriptions. I have not yet had to declare an installation un-satisfactory, unless they have piled high a load of other stuff inside the cupboard disallowing free air and or storage of volatile chemicals.
We all have to tread carefully about using the word "illegal" - we are not lawyers and BS7671 is a code of practice and i do not believe it specifically states you cannot allow a service head in a cupboard. For that install objections would come from National Grid or the meter supplier.
My opinion only is that if the buyer does not like it to choose another house, otherwise its buyer beware and it is what it is.

Thanks, I guess that’s what I was after really. I appreciate the use of illegal/not illegal probably wasn’t the best use of words. Im
Just after clarification as to whether at the point the kitchen was first changed many years ago and subsequent changes after, should someone have said ‘this can’t go here’. I know things have changed over the years and what was once allowed/compliant, wouldn’t necessarily be ok today but is accepted because of the age of a property etc …until such times a change is needed and it’s done to todays standards. I live in a 70’s house and have seen many a thing that makes me roll my eyes but am told that’s how they built them in the 70’s

 

[Avo Mk8]

There's a similar but perhaps more clear cut version of this issue in this thread below:

B

Thread 'My supplier says my meter is installed illegally, how do I rectify this?'

Jan 15, 2025

While in communication with my electricity provider, Octopus, about fitting a smartmeter, and providing photographs, I have been told that my electric meter has been illegally boxed in. The kitchen was professionally fitted 4 years ago with the resulting boxing in of the meter.

Please could you advise the minimum I need to do to make it legal again as I wish to have a smart meter installed, as I am concerned that the current meter may be expired and unsafe.

The shelf that obstructs access is currently easily removable, it rests on a few removable pegs.

How far do I need to cut back the...

• benawhile
• installed meter supplier
• Replies: 14
• Forum: UK Electrical Forum

I don't fully understand why a surveyor working for you should be so insistent that you need to take action on this, unless you are hoping to use his report to inform buyers prior to a sale.

I don't believe there would be anything illegal in you leaving the issue unresolved. It's not as if you are personally responsible for it having arisen. The surveyors reasoning seems to be based on "in case the buyers want to put in a new kitchen". What if they don't? What if they did and their new kitchen fitters were happy to carry on with the existing arrangement (which is likely!).

Since the Surveyor is working for you, I would discuss with him the downside of leaving the installation as it is. Is it really going to put someone off purchasing if they like the house? You can always haggle price, but it seems rash to commit £5K or whatever to rectify something that others may not perceive as a problem.

Surveyors are pernickety - it's their job! A survey on an old house I bought many years ago uncovered way more than 100 issues, but I was happy to go ahead with purchasing it, and spent the next 30 years putting many of them right