How can anyone think this is acceptable ...

[Octopus]

Victorian house - just rewired.

EIC provided .......

Description of works "total rewire of all circuits. Dead tests only"

Speechless

Rant over..................

 

[MDJ]

Maybe that's for NICEIC testers who aren't confident about testing live.....or don't know what WTF they're doing.

Nah, impossible, how can you install a circuit and not do a live test on it? Strima is having a laugh with us, you'll see he will come on in a minute with a cheeky grin, surely lol.

 

[Strima]

Where do you get this information? I am happy to talk to the local NICEIC engineer about your views when I go to a meeting next time. Can you E-Mail me your membership number and company registration number so I can ask them to look into your claims?

I got it direct from my area engineer around three years ago.

Doesn't mean to say I listened to him does it?

 

[Strima]

Nah, impossible, how can you install a circuit and not do a live test on it? Strima is having a laugh with us, you'll see he will come on in a minute with a cheeky grin, surely lol.

Where did I say I don't do live testing?

 

[MDJ]

I got it direct from my area engineer around three years ago.

Doesn't mean to say I listened to him does it?

Well to be fair I do like and respect you Strima and always have, but I would suggest your engineer is a numpty and lets be fair you know it as well lol, so based on that please don't back the muppet up, whats his name so I can humiliate him at the next NICEIC meeting I attend?

 

[MDJ]

Where did I say I don't do live testing?

I never said you didn;'t I was replying to your comment you heard that you didn't have to, it is my gloucestershire accent that came across all wrong

 

[Strima]

I never said you didn;'t I was replying to your comment you heard that you didn't have to, it is my gloucestershire accent that came across all wrong

Take the cider bottle out of your mouth then...

As for my AE, he's retiring this year so I'll let him go peacefully...

 

[MDJ]

Take the cider bottle out of your mouth then...

LOL, will do

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I am amazed that my tongue in cheek comment has produced such responses.
Ironic that it is based on information received from NICEIC members.

 

[Octopus]

I am amazed that my tongue in cheek comment has produced such responses.
Ironic that it is based on information received from NICEIC members.

So what is your real opinion on the EIC I saw this morning?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

So what is your real opinion on the EIC I saw this morning?

Personally I would back the Certificate and ask for the required testing to be conducted.

 

[Ian1981]

Sounds like your fishing for bites to be honest

 

[Des 56]

I read, heard or somehow acquired information from god knows where, Rcds will not require testing on the job in times to come
The tests by the manufacturer prior to sale are to suffice

 

[Octopus]

I read, heard or somehow acquired information from god knows where, Rcds will not require testing on the job in times to come
The tests by the manufacturer prior to sale are to suffice

So what is the point of the schedule of inspections ?

Got my annual assessment soon.

Think I will present my assessor with a schedule showing only dead tests and see what he says....

 

[Squid]

So should the electrician be "a live" or "dead" when doing the testing?

 

[Rpa07]

I read, heard or somehow acquired information from god knows where, Rcds will not require testing on the job in times to come
The tests by the manufacturer prior to sale are to suffice

Was reading about the Chinese made MCBs made for (MK employee telling his dad - reliable source!) that then get tested by the UK base and get chucked because they fail. I think we do need to keep testing RCDs because even fresh out of the box they can be faulty and lets face it - it’s us who’ll have to return and we’ll never see that money or time again and it just makes us look bad.

 

[Octopus]

The certificate had a registration number on it but no logo ..........................

a quick google search revealed ......................


Yes, you've guessed it ...................... NICEIC contractor.

 

[Wilko]

If they've done no live testing then my thought @Murdoch is the Cert must be incomplete. Interested to hear what Assessor says .

 

[telectrix]

all tese negative waves about working live. next thing is i'll be tempted to isolate circuit before changing a socket or light switch. , FFS. .

 

[Midwest]

The NICEIC have been making a big thing about working live for some time now.

In Certsure's Magazine Winter 2017-18 issue, there is one technical article on 'Prospective fault current in domestic and similar properties'.

It describes consumer units to BS EN 61439-3, single phase supply 250V, via a service cut containing an HBC fuse to BS 1361 Type II, not exceeding 100A.

It also states the maximum prospective fault current declared by DNO, suitably connected to take account of service cable length, does not exceed 16 kA.

It demonstrates the tests, and reasoning for.

It finishes with a section on EaWR 1989 & live testing, and a section headed Conclusion. In the Conclusion 'and where conditional rating is applicable, it follows that carrying out an unnecessary test to determine the prospective fault current at the origin, or indeed elsewhere in the installation, is unjustified live working and hence could be seen as a breach of Reg 14 EaWR 1989'.

I think I've done a fair precise of the article, the issue (magazine) is not freely available as a download at the moment. Perhaps this is one of the live tests (not to carry out) your colleagues spoke of?

Have to say, when I've had my Elecsa assessments, I've been asked to demonstrate these (live) tests.

 

[Octopus]

re working "live"

plugging in your MFT to a socket to test the Zs is no different than plugging in your mobile phone charger ..................

 

[davesparks]

re working "live"

plugging in your MFT to a socket to test the Zs is no different than plugging in your mobile phone charger ..................

It’s very different, the mobile phone charger is an appliance connected between L and N, if it’s not done correctly the phone won’t charge.
The tester is deliberately passing a current via the cpc, if it’s not done correctly (dead tests passed, cpc properly connected to the means of earthing) it can cause a lethal voltage to appear on exposed parts connected to that cpc.

 

[polo1]

What a load of tripe from some on here. If some stopped the constant, boring NICEIC bashing and focused on the real issue perhaps matters would be clearer.
NICEIC area engineers certainly encourage contractors to minimise the use of “live” testing wherever practical, simply to reduce risk of harm, eg live tests at a ceiling rose, as dead tests will prove the existence of a cpc, polarity etc. Is plugging in a tester to measure Zs a live test.... of course it is but it presents no risk to the person carrying out the test.
I totally agree that some people/organisations use the H&S card too frequently, but our area engineer is certainly not one of them.
Is live testing the same as live working????
As for the OP, I would certainly be querying the EIC, especially if the installation has rcds/rcbos.

 

[Octopus]

As for the OP, I would certainly be querying the EIC, especially if the installation has rcds/rcbos.

The installation has a AMD3 dual RCD board

As for the NICEIC "bashing" - everyone of the recent "poor" jobs I've been to, which there is certification - HAS BEEN done by a NICEIC member ...................

 

[Wilko]

In Certsure's Magazine Winter 2017-18 issue ... It finishes with a section on EaWR 1989 & live testing, and a section headed Conclusion 'and where conditional rating is applicable, it follows that carrying out an unnecessary test to determine the prospective fault current at the origin, or indeed elsewhere in the installation, is unjustified live working and hence could be seen as a breach of Reg 14 EaWR 1989'.

Thanks for posting @Midwest
I have 2 thoughts - pfc testing is to establish less than 16kA and 6kA (MCB for example) and DNO only comment on 16kA at source. Note they do not certify it's less than 16kA so we test it where that is possible. Or have I missed something?
Next one - saying pfc tests "could be seen as a breach of reg14" is akin to saying my butt "could be seen" as attractive, but that is also unlikely

 

[stevels4]

If I try to enquire ze from the DNO for tncs they will say 0.35 ohms which is ridiculous and may lead to unnecessarily larger cables installed for circuits to comply with ADS

Maximum should be 0.35 Ohms for PME, 0.8 Ohms TNS but I seem to think some DNOs have revised PME maximum to 0.20 Ohms for new connections.