how do you test a fire alarm?

[malcolmsanford]

Come on Bill ...............let's be fair as an apprentice it was ok son run a bit of pyro here and there and fit a few smokes and call points ......jobs a good'un

All joking aside that was what it was like when I did my apprenticeship, there were no fire alarm technicians, burglar alarm technicians, CCTV technicians, emergency light technicians and in a lot of cases we ran the BT guys stuff as well. There were Electrcians and there were engineers that was it.

In today's world we have created all these seperate areas of "expertise", why is really beyond me. You need engineers and designers like Bill from Accord as there have always been, but you just need after him a competant Electrician to carry out his design. The fire, burglar alarms emergency light courses are just that, they have no qualification attached to them but are like Part P just attend and then assessed.

Of course technology as changed and became much more complicated. That though is not the reason we have these seperate areas that onced emcompassed the role of the "electrcian', it's because the electrcians we are producing today are not trained enough. That is not their fault, it is the fault of governments that have destroyed our industrial base and turned our country into a service orientated market.

The modern conception of an "Electrician" is a house basher, someone that does a 7 week course and is fully trained as an "electrician", oh dear oh dear is this country going to get a rude awakening soon.

 

[Buzzard905]

lets also not forget the "fire engineers" that do replacement/additions to emergency lighting systems, then never issue a minor works form as needed..

They shouldn't be touching them in my opinion - leave that to the NICIEC guy who does the PAT testing as well.

 

[accordfire]

lets also not forget the "fire engineers" that do replacement/additions to emergency lighting systems, then never issue a minor works form as needed..

Who's calling them "fire engineers"? Of any sort?

Any work on emergency lighting needs to comply with BS5266 and the requirements of BS7671.

If someone does work on an emergency lighting system and doesn't issue certification, they need kicking in the light bulbs.

It's a fundamental.

 

[Buzzard905]

Who's calling them "fire engineers"? Of any sort?

Any work on emergency lighting needs to comply with BS5266 and the requirements of BS7671.

If someone does work on an emergency lighting system and doesn't issue certification, they need kicking in the light bulbs.

It's a fundamental.

110% on that Bill and on the use of Fire Engineer in relation to what we do - we have our own fully fledged fire engineer within the company and he wouldn't be too pleased to get what he does and know lumped in with what I do!!

 

[accordfire]

Come on Bill ...............let's be fair as an apprentice it was ok son run a bit of pyro here and there and fit a few smokes and call points ......jobs a good'un

All joking aside that was what it was like when I did my apprenticeship, there were no fire alarm technicians, burglar alarm technicians, CCTV technicians, emergency light technicians and in a lot of cases we ran the BT guys stuff as well. There were Electrcians and there were engineers that was it.

In today's world we have created all these seperate areas of "expertise", why is really beyond me. You need engineers and designers like Bill from Accord as there have always been, but you just need after him a competant Electrician to carry out his design. The fire, burglar alarms emergency light courses are just that, they have no qualification attached to them but are like Part P just attend and then assessed.

Of course technology as changed and became much more complicated. That though is not the reason we have these seperate areas that onced emcompassed the role of the "electrcian', it's because the electrcians we are producing today are not trained enough. That is not their fault, it is the fault of governments that have destroyed our industrial base and turned our country into a service orientated market.

The modern conception of an "Electrician" is a house basher, someone that does a 7 week course and is fully trained as an "electrician", oh dear oh dear is this country going to get a rude awakening soon.[/QUOTE]

You're right - as an apprentice, it was ok to do a lot of things - but (in my case anyway) a lot of those things were checked with or without my knowledge, by guys who DID know.

Also, I agree completely about today's produce as far as training electricians goes - they do not have the advantages you and I did - which was the freedom to do those things on site, screw them up, get them checked, and learn where we went wrong at the "knee" of someone who DID know better.

There is another strand to this, as you indicate - today's industries have diversified. Fire alarms, for example, are not the simple creatures they largely were a quarter century ago. And while it is still largely rooted in electrical installation practice, as far as installing a system goes, it is diverse now from standard electrical installation too, and getting more so. The same thing is happening with electronic security.

The problem with that, as you say, is the proliferation of "easy" courses that promise to make you an electrician, or a fire alarm technician, or whatever, with only a few days study. If only.

It consistently does my nut that there is no recognised qualification for fire alarm technicians. But then again, it does me also that nobody has to do a "proper" apprenticeship any longer.

I well recall the guys I worked with back in the day, moaning their socks off that I only had to do three years, and I could call myself qualified - most of them had to do at least seven. Even I wouldn't ever have thought I'd be moaning at guys who can call themselves in any way qualified after five DAYS though.

But lest we forget, this is a problem which has affected almost every area of our country - this dumbing down affects everything, and not just electrical work. And we can hardly call it a "service oriented" nation either - there is no concept any longer of service here, other than for oneself. I could rant on forever about that, as I suspect can most of us.

Just for the record, though - I have no issue with any electrician installing fire alarms, or security systems, subject to the same rules as fire alarm technicians - that they follow fully the design laid out for the building, and the rules attached to that. It isn't, and never has been, a case of one lot better than another - just about trying to raise what we all agree are woefully low standards, and awareness of the skill needed to do any of it properly.