How many eicr in a day

[magnoliafan89]

Hi guys whats your take of how many EICRs can be done properly in a day average of 5 to 8 circuits ranging from 1 bed flats to 3 bed houses?? This would also include travel and also doing any repairs whilst there?

 

[nicebutdim]

The problem you highlight is there nothing to stop anyone calling themselves an electrician regardless of what level of study or qualification they have achieved, you are critical of electricians turning out appalling work but have you ever checked what qualification or level of training they have
All the comments around training only ever seem to refer to how easy it is to carry out an installation with no mention of faultfinding or identifying potential issues with meter readings which can be a critical part of an EICR

All of this reminds me of a guy I got chatting to at one of the shows he had done the short courses and been asked by a customer to change an outside light but couldn't find where to isolate it so he recommended that the customer got a proper electrician in to sort it

Look at the electrical industry from the perspective of a domestic customer and you've pretty much nailed the problem...

Joe Bloggs comes home to find his downstairs lights have gone out and he reaches for the yellow pages (more likely google these days). He has no concept of the various levels to which any of the electricians he calls might be qualified to and, quite frankly, nor should he. It's reasonable for that consumer to assume that anyone advertising their services as an electrician should be able to find the fault and fix it, but sadly we know that fault finding and repair can take many different forms and can be carried out to a wide range of standards - that's not casting aspersions on any particular people, it's a simple and sad fact of life. If the average householder was to ask what level an electrician was qualified to, the answer would mean nothing to them.

I'll give you some examples from personal experience:

1. My parents paid to have some electrical work carried out in the 80s by a time served elctrician. The cables were pulled in so roughly that I subsequently found (when doing unrelated work) that over 10' of continuous outer sheath was torn, with line and neutral insulation damaged in several sections and conductors exposed to any rodents that might happen upon them. This was a guy who served his time in the 70s and had a decade of domestic and commercial experience under his belt.

2. New build house with split load board and one RCD begins to trip after a year. I wanted to know what was causing this fault and have it repaired, so my first port of call was the electrician who wired the place. I was more than happy with his previous work, but the guy is very busy and hard to get hold of. During a brief phone conversation he felt the RCD was the least likely cause and that the most likely the fault was caused when I'd changed some accessories (at my other half's insistence) to decorative and he promised to call and do some testing. I was pretty certain that the change of accessories hadn't been the cause of this issue, but would have been happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately the electrician didn't turn up and also failed to show on a subsequently arranged day - 18 months later I still haven't heard from him. I was still stuck with an RCD taking out half the board and no means of heating a drop of water, as the boiler was on one of the affected circuits, and a wife and child who were less than impressed with intermittent hot water when showering. I tried finding local electricians through google and spoke to quite a number. Many were busy with contract work and were quoting 6-8 weeks before they could fit me in, while most others were happy to come reasonably quickly, but talked of replacing the RCD and shied away when I asked if they could test to find the actual cause. By this stage constant resetting of the RCD had meant that it was nigh on impossible to reset and I was no closer to finding a local electrician who was competent in testing. In the end I reluctantly stuck in a new RCD in the hope that it might buy some time and haven't had any issues since - was the RCD the cause of my problem or is something else still underlying, but not causing enough earth leakage to trip? I've no idea, but hopefully by this stage you get the point I'm making.


Getting back to the point on which people have argued; what would make me or any other aspiring electrician who chooses the short course route less than competent? Someone who wants to blaze through in the sortest time possible and learn the bare minimum is no different from an apprentice who puts in the bare minimum of effort and scrapes through their apprenticeship. There's no reason why someone who goes down the short course route wouldn't seek to gain years of experience alongside a competent electrician and only undertake work which is well within their abilities.

The term "missed the bus" was used earlier to dismiss another member whose opinion was not appreciated. I'm not offended that someone wished to defend their trade, but do feel that comment was unwarranted. At what point does a person miss the electrical bus? The commentator in question clearly felt that anyone entering the industry as an adult fits the bill, but what about apprentices who have to resit their GCSE english or mathematics? Should they be thrown off the bus? Maybe those apprentices who fail modules of their training shouldn't be given the chance to resit them.

I don't want to spend 6 weeks training and then bust out my tools in unsuspecting households. I want to get into an industry that is particularly difficult to enter as an adult and, unfortunately, the only route available to me is through distance learning. My plan is to study hard and get a good grounding in theory, then find work as an electrician's mate to gain my NVQ and continue in that vein to gain good experience. I accept the fact that some electricians will regard my route into the industry as less acceptable than their apprenticeship, but I can live with that and have no intention of leaving work behind me that anyone can find fault with. There are many time served electricians who work to the highest standard, but the fact remains that a significant number do not. If someone is keen to learn and wants to work, they'll always have an advantage over those who want to do the bare minimum and that applies regardless of the route taken in to the industry. Maybe my opinions will be unpopular or unwelcome, but there's no harm in considering more than one side of a discussion.

 

[Baddegg]

Well I got called to look at a job yesterday, rejig kitchen rfc for a builder, place is gutted everywhere lovely.....so quoted him for that all agreed and date set, he also mentions he wants an eicr as he’s renting the place on completion.....there’s the kitchen rfc...1 lighting circuit 3 lamps 4 switches and 1 other rfc 4 points....even as I’m just about to install and verify one of them 3 circuits I reckon I still couldn’t beat the 45 min merchant ?

 

[Cottsyboy]

I'm an EICR a day man up to 4 bedroom, if it's a 4 bed detached garage with an extension then I go for two days. I have every accessible socket opened and checked, light fittings wiring checked and loads of visual before my MFT comes out? The amount of times I've found crap light installations that could give good readings but fail because Mr diy has done it is beyond me. I had a call from an estate agent asking me to price for landlord certs , when I said £230 a day and big houses are two days, you could hear the sharp intake of breath. I would rather do a quality EICR than a rushed one and miss the only socket with twisted cpc's but not connected to the earth connection.

 

[Brian Taylor]

Totally agree with my southern friend.

£125-£150 per property = race to the bottom IMHO

Wow £150 per property... I charge £40:00 per property and still lose some at that price..and yes 2 per day is plenty. In addition i worked for a large testing organisation based on the South East some years ago and at the time I left they were expecting 50 circuits per day tested.

 

[Grant1987]

Look at the electrical industry from the perspective of a domestic customer and you've pretty much nailed the problem...

Joe Bloggs comes home to find his downstairs lights have gone out and he reaches for the yellow pages (more likely google these days). He has no concept of the various levels to which any of the electricians he calls might be qualified to and, quite frankly, nor should he. It's reasonable for that consumer to assume that anyone advertising their services as an electrician should be able to find the fault and fix it, but sadly we know that fault finding and repair can take many different forms and can be carried out to a wide range of standards - that's not casting aspersions on any particular people, it's a simple and sad fact of life. If the average householder was to ask what level an electrician was qualified to, the answer would mean nothing to them.

I'll give you some examples from personal experience:

1. My parents paid to have some electrical work carried out in the 80s by a time served elctrician. The cables were pulled in so roughly that I subsequently found (when doing unrelated work) that over 10' of continuous outer sheath was torn, with line and neutral insulation damaged in several sections and conductors exposed to any rodents that might happen upon them. This was a guy who served his time in the 70s and had a decade of domestic and commercial experience under his belt.

2. New build house with split load board and one RCD begins to trip after a year. I wanted to know what was causing this fault and have it repaired, so my first port of call was the electrician who wired the place. I was more than happy with his previous work, but the guy is very busy and hard to get hold of. During a brief phone conversation he felt the RCD was the least likely cause and that the most likely the fault was caused when I'd changed some accessories (at my other half's insistence) to decorative and he promised to call and do some testing. I was pretty certain that the change of accessories hadn't been the cause of this issue, but would have been happy to be proven wrong. Unfortunately the electrician didn't turn up and also failed to show on a subsequently arranged day - 18 months later I still haven't heard from him. I was still stuck with an RCD taking out half the board and no means of heating a drop of water, as the boiler was on one of the affected circuits, and a wife and child who were less than impressed with intermittent hot water when showering. I tried finding local electricians through google and spoke to quite a number. Many were busy with contract work and were quoting 6-8 weeks before they could fit me in, while most others were happy to come reasonably quickly, but talked of replacing the RCD and shied away when I asked if they could test to find the actual cause. By this stage constant resetting of the RCD had meant that it was nigh on impossible to reset and I was no closer to finding a local electrician who was competent in testing. In the end I reluctantly stuck in a new RCD in the hope that it might buy some time and haven't had any issues since - was the RCD the cause of my problem or is something else still underlying, but not causing enough earth leakage to trip? I've no idea, but hopefully by this stage you get the point I'm making.


Getting back to the point on which people have argued; what would make me or any other aspiring electrician who chooses the short course route less than competent? Someone who wants to blaze through in the sortest time possible and learn the bare minimum is no different from an apprentice who puts in the bare minimum of effort and scrapes through their apprenticeship. There's no reason why someone who goes down the short course route wouldn't seek to gain years of experience alongside a competent electrician and only undertake work which is well within their abilities.

The term "missed the bus" was used earlier to dismiss another member whose opinion was not appreciated. I'm not offended that someone wished to defend their trade, but do feel that comment was unwarranted. At what point does a person miss the electrical bus? The commentator in question clearly felt that anyone entering the industry as an adult fits the bill, but what about apprentices who have to resit their GCSE english or mathematics? Should they be thrown off the bus? Maybe those apprentices who fail modules of their training shouldn't be given the chance to resit them.

I don't want to spend 6 weeks training and then bust out my tools in unsuspecting households. I want to get into an industry that is particularly difficult to enter as an adult and, unfortunately, the only route available to me is through distance learning. My plan is to study hard and get a good grounding in theory, then find work as an electrician's mate to gain my NVQ and continue in that vein to gain good experience. I accept the fact that some electricians will regard my route into the industry as less acceptable than their apprenticeship, but I can live with that and have no intention of leaving work behind me that anyone can find fault with. There are many time served electricians who work to the highest standard, but the fact remains that a significant number do not. If someone is keen to learn and wants to work, they'll always have an advantage over those who want to do the bare minimum and that applies regardless of the route taken in to the industry. Maybe my opinions will be unpopular or unwelcome, but there's no harm in considering more than one side of a discussion.

My advice to you is get your qualifications and try to shadow a qualified spark if you’re thinking of doing a crash course. I’m not going to slate you I don’t like the 6 week courses which then make you “qualified” Absolute rubbish. Aslong as you dont try to carry out work on your own thinking you know it all and you spend a couple of years at least with a senior spark who tests you then you’ll be fine. I understand what you’re saying with tradesmen who don’t put the effort in but again are you doing the inexperienced thing of finding faults in other people’s work? That’s all too easy to do but not your own. You disagreed with me on another subject on here which I like. I divide opinion with my views and don’t come on here to say yes Sir! enjoy the debate Be boring otherwise ?

 

[Markyd]

5 a Day......Light on Light off Pass NEXT

 

[Grant1987]

5 a Day......Light on Light off Pass NEXT

And if one of those lights don’t come on then that’s extras for additional time ?‍

 

[nicebutdim]

My advice to you is get your qualifications and try to shadow a qualified spark if you’re thinking of doing a crash course. I’m not going to slate you I don’t like the 6 week courses which then make you “qualified” Absolute rubbish. Aslong as you dont try to carry out work on your own thinking you know it all and you spend a couple of years at least with a senior spark who tests you then you’ll be fine. I understand what you’re saying with tradesmen who don’t put the effort in but again are you doing the inexperienced thing of finding faults in other people’s work? That’s all too easy to do but not your own. You disagreed with me on another subject on here which I like. I divide opinion with my views and don’t come on here to say yes Sir! enjoy the debate Be boring otherwise ?

The examples I gave weren't intended to be critical, but simply real experiences. The first example was someone who was certainly capable, but rushed through a job without much concern - the damaged cable wasn't pulled blindly through a void, but was pulled through freshly drilled joists with boards lifted. There's no way it went unnoticed at the time as exposed red insulation was glaringly obvious when I lifted those boards many years later, but I'd also question how likely it would be that you could strip 10' of sheath in a ceiling void without realising the cable wasn't pulling freely? The second example was of me finding myself in a situation I'd rather not have been in - no questioning ability or working practices, but simply a situation where good sparks were in high demand. If I was to level one criticism, it would be that communication could have been better and I suspect the guy I originally called wouldn't argue with that.

It's not money that provided the motivation to re-train, but a desire to do something that genuinely interests me, so I'm in no rush to hang out a shingle and grasp every job that comes along. I'd rather have gone to a local college, but that simply can't happen as no courses are currently available for the upcoming term. As I've been self-employed for most of my life, and have other sources of income, my hope is that the idea of someone being available at short notice, who doesn't have to be on the payroll, might appeal to a local electrician and this flexibility could lead to more regular work. It would be great to secure full time work with someone who is well experienced, but I'd also be happy to work a few days each week in order to gain experience.

If there's one thing I have learned over the years, it would be my limitations and knowing never to start a job that I'm not confident of completing successfully.

 

[UNG]

Wow £150 per property... I charge £40:00 per property and still lose some at that price..and yes 2 per day is plenty. In addition i worked for a large testing organisation based on the South East some years ago and at the time I left they were expecting 50 circuits per day tested.

£40 is totally unrealistic for an EICR and I would question what you are managing to test and inspect in the hour or so you are on site as well as write up the cert if your losing some at that price then what are people expecting
How on earth can anyone hit 500 tested circuits per day, that is about 9.6 minutes per circuit on an 8 hour day non stop is this just a drive by of every circuit as you haven't got time for anything else

 

[DPG]

Wow £150 per property... I charge £40:00 per property and still lose some at that price..and yes 2 per day is plenty. In addition i worked for a large testing organisation based on the South East some years ago and at the time I left they were expecting 50 circuits per day tested.

How much? Is that a typo? Surely can't be charging £40 to travel to site, inspect, test, fill out report, etc. for that?

 

[magnoliafan89]

Surely this thread has been done to death now and is veering off topic ??

 

[DPG]

Surely this thread has been done to death now and is veering off topic ??

I'm still interested to know more about the £40 EICRs.

 

[UNG]

I'm still interested to know more about the £40 EICRs.

I charge £40:00 per property and still lose some at that price.

I'd like to know if he is losing some because he is so cheap as I can't see anybody undercutting him

 

[Brian Taylor]

£40 is totally unrealistic for an EICR and I would question what you are managing to test and inspect in the hour or so you are on site as well as write up the cert if your losing some at that price then what are people expecting
How on earth can anyone hit 500 tested circuits per day, that is about 9.6 minutes per circuit on an 8 hour day non stop is this just a drive by of every circuit as you haven't got time for anything else

Hi just to answer your question it takes me about 3 hours to do a test ..the certs i write up in the evening..a manage 2 tests per day . I'm guessing your comment about being paid to travel to site is a joke..who ever gets paid to travel to The job these days ?

 

[Jim_e_Jib]

Hi just to answer your question it takes me about 3 hours to do a test ..the certs i write up in the evening..a manage 2 tests per day . I'm guessing your comment about being paid to travel to site is a joke..who ever gets paid to travel to The job these days ?

Surely that makes your hourly rate about £10 before tax and expenses are taken in to account. That can't be sustainable?