* How many points? *

[Adam W]

Following on from a discussion/argument/brouhaha at work today:
Would you describe a CCU (Cooker Control Unit) which incorporates a socket as 2 points since it does 2 different things, or 1 point since it's 1 accessory and 1 set of terminals?

Also would you count a cooker flex outlet as a point since it contains a set of terminals, or not since it's essentially a JB and not doing anything the terminals in the cooker don't do?

 

[Oli G]

I always count double socket as two points in schedule in number of points served. Single socket one point. Double socket two points nest'ce-pas?

I've always been told to do it this way too. So I'd call a CCU with socket as 2 points. I'm surprised this thread seems to be so one sided in the other direction..

 

[Dillb]

I've always been told to do it this way too. So I'd call a CCU with socket as 2 points. I'm surprised this thread seems to be so one sided in the other direction..

So a 4 tube modular fitting is 4 points?

 

[Oli G]

So a 4 tube modular fitting is 4 points?

No.. but I get your point.

 

[Risteard]

Just out of interest would you count switches on a lighting circuit as points or just the pendants?

I thought I stated that in the post - if not then my apologies. No, I wouldn't count functional switches or isolators as they are not for the connection of current-using equipment. (Leaving aside your point about the neon!)

 

[MFS Electrical]

I thought I stated that in the post - if not then my apologies. No, I wouldn't count functional switches or isolators as they are not for the connection of current-using equipment. (Leaving aside your point about the neon!)

Oh and by the way I honestly wasn’t insinuating that you were an a**e just in case you or anyone else thought that it’s just that I used to work with a guy who if you said black he said white so he would have counted the neons as current using equipment he was most definitely an a**e

 

[littlespark]

A CCU is one point. With a socket, its one point. I wouldn't count the outlet as a secondary point. (if the switch is off, the outlet is not part of the circuit anymore)
Ive seen in the past cooker cable connected directly to the CCU fed up through a bit of conduit buried in the wall.
Still one point

The way we understand "number of points served" is subjective and down to individual.

A switch and a pendant is one point. What if pendant is changed to 4 lamp light fitting? Still one point? Yes
What if light fitting in then changed to 4 downlights? That becomes 4 points. Still 4 lamps, but not in the same position on the ceiling.

 

[Andy78]

I use the IET model forms so I don’t concern myself with the number of points purely because it is so subjective

Strictly the regs do ask for that info to be provided though.

I too neglect to note the number of points on all my certs for precisely the reasons and varied opinions brought up in this thread. One person's single point is the next man's two, three, or no points. The information is meaningless unless standardised.

 

[sparkdog]

I think we've got the point now.

 

[Dave OCD]

On a slightly different note it seems the Scam 'own brand' certs also require the max Zs for each circuit to be logged [a bit pointless too IMHO], whereas no mention of it on the IET model forms, guess which I use...

 

[Andy78]

On a slightly different note it seems the Scam 'own brand' certs also require the max Zs for each circuit to be logged [a bit pointless too IMHO], whereas no mention of it on the IET model forms, guess which I use...

See 514.9.1

 

[MFS Electrical]

See 514.9.1

Could you elaborate I don’t have the big book with me at the moment

 

[Dave OCD]

Yes I know but what use is this information to the owner/user of the installation ? You're certifying the work as safe and as such you wouldn't entertain a circuit which exceeded the max Zs for its cable size/OCPD/installation method etc . So I feel that recording the actual R1+R2 and compliant Zs is perfectly adequate.

 

[Andy78]

Yes I know but what use is this information to the owner/user of the installation ? You're certifying the work as safe and as such you wouldn't entertain a circuit which exceeded the max Zs for its cable size/OCPD/installation method etc . So I feel that recording the actual R1+R2 and compliant Zs is perfectly adequate.

I also agree that not all the information is especially useful to the recipient, but could be very useful to subsequent inspections. Such info could also be useful in the form of a handover document/ maintenance folder for a large installation.
Just pointing out that most non model form certs include this info to comply with regulations for simple installations.

 

[MFS Electrical]

I also agree that not all the information is especially useful to the recipient, but could be very useful to subsequent inspections. Such info could also be useful in the form of a handover document/ maintenance folder for a large installation.
Just pointing out that most non model form certs include this info to comply with regulations for simple installations.

Well if you want to be pernickety the customer can clearly see looking at the form that it complies and you have really looked up the max Zs rather than just writing the reading and handing it over but then why not have a min IR Column a max Ze column etc.

 

[Andy78]

Could you elaborate I don’t have the big book with me at the moment

I would but the broken forum won't let me upload a pic of the reg.

 

[Andy78]

Well if you want to be pernickety the customer can clearly see looking at the form that it complies and you have really looked up the max Zs rather than just writing the reading and handing it over but then why not have a min IR Column a max Ze column etc.

I don't want to be pernickity but the regs might. 514.9.1 asks for the method of compliance with 410.3.2 which is why the max Zs appears on most certs, but it makes no requirement for info of compliance of IR tests.

 

[Wilko]

So, we've discussed cooker switch with and without an outlet. But how many points is a double outlet with built in wifi repeater and USB charger ... reminds me of a movie scene