How would you do it?? Two way on 12 lights, some dimmed, some not

[ian1511]

Hi

I have a job with a customer who wants his new kitchen which has been designed to have two way switching ofn12 sets of lights, some off them dimmed and some just switched.

My question is how would you do this? Client wants one bank of switches so grid set up best, a lot of cables to each switch bank, I have wired everything back to one point so I can put in a big adaptable box with din rail mounted connections.

Any thoughts on how you would attack this, I have 18 cables at one switch bank!!

 

[telectrix]

crazy. newver mind, in scouseland, between 1st and 2nd fix, all those 18 cables will be on the back of a transit, headed towards the nearest scrappy.

 

[The Ghost]

Probably be thinking about singles and one line in. Cut down cables etc. But yes you can get some really nice grid switches nowadays. Is it LED? If so would be thinking about RGB and touch circle switch for the dimmer lights. But yeh maybe difficult in domestic. Maybe multi-core.

 

[Marvo]

With that kinda complexity it might be worth looking at an intelligent or semi-intelligent lighting controller. Not sure what suitable stuff is available, maybe someone else has a more specific product in mind. I'm thinking like a minature DMX controller or a scene controller like the Lutron Graphic Eye although thiese may be outside of your customers price bracket.

 

[Octopus]

I went a bit mad with our kitchen diner and the lighting but your set up sounds mad to say the least.

18 cables at one switch bank - why?

 

[Diddy]

Hmm this really sounds like a job for smart lighting such as but not limited too phillips hue range. Then the customer can set up "scenes" and have a the touch of a button whatever scene he wishes. 18 cables "sounds" like a pretty poor wiring design for "sets" of lights. Even if each set was fed by an individual switchwire ect.....still sounds a hell of a lot. Show us a quick sketch up of the lighting plan please.....maybe between us we can come up with something different that does the same job. Other than that using the joint box wiring method with the jb mounted somewhere convenient such as next to db ect can be a good option.

 

[ian1511]

the client is awkward to work with! I have suggested Lutron and other lighting control systems but he doesn't like them, had the option when the house was first built which is worth millions.

So many cables as there are 12 different sets of lighting which total 45 fittings, all LED with a mixture of spots, pendants and LED strips which will also have a colour wheel

He doesn't like fancy controls wants switches he can just turn on and off.

Using the junction box method seemed the best way to reduce cables otherwise the 18 would of been more

 

[HandySparks]

Surely, if you're using a JB to tie everything together, you'll need a maximum of one T&E or 3C&E for each switch, ie 12?

 

[Diddy]

Surely, if you're using a JB to tie everything together, you'll need a maximum of one T&E or 3C&E for each switch, ie 12?

That's what I thought. Well if there is no way to reduce cables and customer is wanting "modern lighting" in the convential way then you have no choice....I wish you luck lol. Nice deep back box. Multi gang grid switch...Here is a nice 12 gang backbox Grid Box Flush - 9 & 12 Gang White Grid Plates - https://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUGBG04F.html?ad_position=1o1&source=adwords&ad_id=45425533757&placement=&kw=&network=g&matchtype=&ad_type=pla&product_id=GUGBG04F&product_partition_id=174054650947&test=finalurl_v2&gclid=CjwKEAiA4dPCBRCM4dqhlv2R1R8SJABom9pHdxssu71Jh-TqK-GY9FXvaoUlS8Uzp6kMBiZ-fvFcuxoCP4nw_wcB
You can take your pick of any of the makers for the grid + switches ect.

 

[kropaske]

Any thoughts on how you would attack this, I have 18 cables at one switch bank!!

So if you have a 2 sets of grid switches 12 zones(switches) each in 2 way arrangements how about this:
1x t&e from CU to 1st grid switch(L, N, E) and then 1x 2 core from there to zone 1(provide only N & E then link and go to next zone do the same and go to next zone until zone 12).
Now from 1st grid you need 2 cores for every zone to work in 2 way so use 5x 5 cores from 1st grid to 2nd grid(you will have 1 core left so use it as earth).
Now from 2nd grid you will need 1 core for every zone to provide switched live. Use 4 core to 1st zone provide SL in there link other cores and go to next zone. You will need 3x 4 cores for this.
So overall you will have 7 cables in 1st grid and 8 cables in 2nd grid.
Does it make any sens or am i talking rubbish...

 

[Octopus]

How ever you decide to do it, you will need to be meticulous with your cabling marking at 1st fix ..........

 

[Midwest]

1x t&e from CU to 1st grid switch(L, N, E) .

Might want to rethink one supply for 45 luminaries? JCC for example, recommend max of 28 FGLED6 on one 10amp C curve MCB.

 

[Wilko]

So if you have a 2 sets of grid switches 12 zones(switches) each in 2 way arrangements how about this:
1x t&e from CU to 1st grid switch(L, N, E) and then 1x 2 core from there to zone 1(provide only N & E then link and go to next zone do the same and go to next zone until zone 12)...

Hi K,
Just reminding reg 543.6.1 the protective conductor needs to run with the live conductors "in the same wiring system" or "in their immediate proximity". So if the cables were grouped that would likely be ok

 

[kropaske]

Might want to rethink one supply for 45 luminaries? JCC for example, recommend max of 28 FGLED6 on one 10amp C curve MCB.

I guess it's all down to led drivers and their inrush currents and time.
From theoretical point of view if you attempt to switch them on at the same time (bear in mind you will need 12 fingers to do that ) and within few ms, you will likely trip 10amp c type mcb. But in real life you will be switching them on one by one or 2-3 at the same time, which imho wont trip same mcb. Nevertheless is a very good point and simple solution would be to add another feed from CU and another N+E to luminares to split them.

So if the cables were grouped that would likely be ok

I am sure this can be arrange that way

 

[Midwest]

I guess it's all down to led drivers and their inrush currents and time.
From theoretical point of view if you attempt to switch them on at the same time (bear in mind you will need 12 fingers to do that ) and within few ms, you will likely trip 10amp c type mcb. But in real life you will be switching them on one by one or 2-3 at the same time, which imho wont trip same mcb. Nevertheless is a very good point and simple solution would be to add another feed from CU and another N+E to luminares to split them.


I am sure this can be arrange that way

Most kids can switch on a bank of lights, with a 'sleight of hand', and then leave them on all day! I'd split up the lights over a couple of circuits, and over different RCD's or RCBO's.