Hybrid circuits

[Pete999]

Morning all, been pondering quite a bit lately about Hybrid circuits,especially 13amp socket circuits, the likes of lolly pop rings etc.

I don't want to get into arguments about the pros and cons and why people install them, that's been done to death, whether, I personally agree with this method is neither here nor there, no, my question is, " how are these circuits tested, and how are the results entered on the installation certificate?" for example if you have installed a lolly pop ring how is that described? as a ring or a radial.

 

[ImpededLoop]

A very good question.

With a lollipop ring final I would enter r1 rn r2 for the ring section and then R1+R2, Zs and insulation resistance for the entire circuit. I'd then add a comment to explain that it's a lollipop circuit hence the lower than normal little "r" results and also the cable sizes on the radial and ring sections of the circuit.

 

[Octopus]

With good use of the description box.

So a lollipop should be tested and recorded like a ring.

Jmo

 

[VoltzElectrical]

What is a lollipop ring please? And I'm not joking!:uhoh2:

 

[guest119]

6mm feed, old cooker circuit etc, feeding a new ring circuit.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Why would you bother making a ring of it, just extend the 6mm circuit in say, 4mm.

That's mad, and I've never heard of it, nor would I have thought of doing it!

 

[Engineer54]

Why would you bother making a ring of it, just extend the 6mm circuit in say, 4mm.

That's mad, and I've never heard of it, nor would I have thought of doing it!

Explain what's mad about it?? Lollipop rings have been around probably longer than than you've been alive!! lol!!

 

[Octopus]

If the customer supplies Wickes sockets you have to use 2.5 as getting 2 x 4mm in is a bit tricky!

 

[7029 dave]

My boy lollipop , Millie small. lol

 

[HappyHippyDad]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

 

[Engineer54]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

That's because you're a electrical trainee, you can't see any further than what's covered in BS7671 and the picture book OSG and the like!!

 

[Octopus]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

Re read post #8

 

[HappyHippyDad]

That's because you're a electrical trainee, you can't see any further than what's covered in BS7671 and the picture book OSG and the like!!

Not sure why, but I expected more from you E54.

My boy lollipop , Millie small. lol

:smile5: I've just played that to my boy and he loves it, plays it over and over again!!!!

Re read post #8

I did see that Murdoch, but I would have thought x2 4mm fit in most sockets. I generally use crabtree and sometimes MK which both accommadate x2 4mm. However, if Wickes dont accommadate them I guess a lollipop is an option, but I personally would want to try and avoid it.

 

[Guest55]

i would not test / record a lollipop circuit as a ring as only 1 set of conductors are at the CU , therefore at the circuits origin , it must be a radial.
And trying to separately record 2 sets of results for the ring and radial parts wont lead to much clarity in the report.
However i may conduct end to end continuity tests of the ring part to ensure proper construction , but would ultimately still record it as a radial

 

[Pete999]

To add to my original post regarding Hybrid circuits, and having read the responses, one in particular peeked my interest, I think it was Eng54, where I think he said something along the lines of "just because it's not in BS7671 or the OSG doesn't make it a non compliant arrangement" if I have misread that then I apologize. but it does raise the question, if and I say if, because, as I said my personal thoughts are not in question, why doesn't the IET recognize these arrangements and include them in their publications?

I can hear the sighs now " because they are a bunch of dinosaurs etc etc, but it will be interesting to hear your thoughts.