Hybrid circuits

[Pete999]

Morning all, been pondering quite a bit lately about Hybrid circuits,especially 13amp socket circuits, the likes of lolly pop rings etc.

I don't want to get into arguments about the pros and cons and why people install them, that's been done to death, whether, I personally agree with this method is neither here nor there, no, my question is, " how are these circuits tested, and how are the results entered on the installation certificate?" for example if you have installed a lolly pop ring how is that described? as a ring or a radial.

 

[ipf]

To add to my original post regarding Hybrid circuits, and having read the responses, one in particular peeked my interest, I think it was Eng54, where I think he said something along the lines of "just because it's not in BS7671 or the OSG doesn't make it a non compliant arrangement" if I have misread that then I apologize. but it does raise the question, if and I say if, because, as I said my personal thoughts are not in question, why doesn't the IET recognize these arrangements and include them in their publications?

I can hear the sighs now " because they are a bunch of dinosaurs etc etc, but it will be interesting to hear your thoughts.

Speaking of dinosaurs....I knew one bloke who used to lick his fingers before touching a cable in case it was live..ha. Don't know if he ever came across a lolipop to lick.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Explain what's mad about it?? Lollipop rings have been around probably longer than than you've been alive!! lol!!

I can't wait to find the opportunity to try out this highly established and well respected form of wiring! LOL LOL LOL. MEEERRRRYYYY CHRIIISTMAAAS!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

BS7671 is a set of Regulations, not a How to do book.
It is also produced by a committee.
As such only standard circuits are shown, as they are the only circuits everyone on the comitee agree about.
I take it that you have not experienced Spider circuits, or Spider Rings?
I have no idea who came up with such a circuit, but they need a good spanking.

 

[Simonslimline]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

Anyone who is going to to take it upon themselves to mess with electricity should be suitably competent first of all to do so. This includes having the necessary Tools, AVI & test instruments. So this setup should not pose a problem to an electrically competent person IMO.

 

[shanky887614]

nothing wrong with a lolipop circuit.

its no different to stagered lighting e.g. spots using 3 core

 

[davesparks]

I must say Pete I cant really see any pro's in a lollipop circuit?

As for extending an extinct cooker circuit, like Voltz says, why not use 4mm and keep it as a radial? I think mixing a ring and a radial is potentially asking for problems (DIY homeowner isolates wrong circuit, not a recognised method therefore increases risk due to unfamiliarity etc) and at the least a headache when it comes to testing, especially if it is not as simple as the ring starting from the old cooker switch.

Unless there are very clear reasons for why a 'lollipop' circuit would be preferably to extending as opposed to a radial (I cant see any) then I personally think it would be best to have either a 'ring' or a 'radial', not both mixed.

There's a hell of a big world out there once you get out of messing about in houses.

If you have a longish run from board to first points on the ring you can just run a single larger conductor and run you ring from there.
This cuts down installation time and combats voltage drop.

If you need to install an switch to control a bunch of sockets on a ring then a radial to the switch and ring from there is more sensible.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

There's a hell of a big world out there once you get out of messing about in houses.

If you have a longish run from board to first points on the ring you can just run a single larger conductor and run you ring from there.
This cuts down installation time and combats voltage drop.

If you need to install an switch to control a bunch of sockets on a ring then a radial to the switch and ring from there is more sensible.

What switch are you going to install to 'control' a bunch of sockets and why?

 

[ImpededLoop]

30A switch in a classroom would be an example, or in the old days in a school computer room.

 

[davesparks]

What switch are you going to install to 'control' a bunch of sockets and why?

32A DP switch, and thought the reason was obvious!

It would be there to switch off the sockets!

Examples of places this is done being classrooms, TV/recording studios, theatres, bars/clubs, workshops, laboratories.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

30A switch in a classroom would be an example, or in the old days in a school computer room.

A 30 amp switch? I assume you would install this to stop the kids using the computers until you said 'go'?

Can someone show me a 30 amp switch please as i haven't seen one that I can think of.

 

[davesparks]

A 30 amp switch? I assume you would install this to stop the kids using the computers until you said 'go'?

Can someone show me a 30 amp switch please as i haven't seen one that I can think of.

You've never seen an old cooker switch or 30A isolator/switchfuse then?

These days you normally get 32A obviously

 

[Deleted member 26818]

Don't know about 30A switches but one example I can think of, is using a redundant cooker or immersion feed for a grid switch for isolating under counter appliances.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Sorry guys, I have worked on projects that have included 2 hospitals, 3 student accommodations, 1 cinema/ theatre, fire station, various domestic, 2 schools lalalalala.

I'm no Electrical Trainee, but I'll put my hands up, I haven't seen everything. Now I'm flummoxed on two things in one day.

1. Lolipop rings. Sound yummy, but on further investigation, not so nice.
2. Using 32 amp switches to isolate socket circuits? Not in my experience.

I must be lacking. Luckily not in the trouser department!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

You've never seen an old cooker switch or 30A isolator/switchfuse then?

These days you normally get 32A obviously

Yes, obviously, to isolate a single point, but a whole bunch of sockets?

 

[VoltzElectrical]

Don't know about 30A switches but one example I can think of, is using a redundant cooker or immersion feed for a grid switch for isolating under counter appliances.

You are redesigning a circuit as a kitchen radial then surely?