You're starting to annoy me. Either you're deliberately being obtuse or simply not listening to our answers.

The generator IS NOT driving the fan. The generator is just one link in a chain of energy conversions that goes back to the power station burning coal or splitting uranium. Every step along the way you lose energy to inefficiencies, never do you gain it. You cannot get more energy out of a machine than you put in, no matter how many times you change the wording of the question.

Energy is not infinite and neither is our patience. I'll give you one last good-faith answer, after that you'll be blocked as a waste of mental effort.

The motor will stall because more output is being demanded of it than it is capable of providing. Overloaded motors slow and stall because that is the physical outcome of placing too much back force on their rotating magnetic field, the force pushing on the rotor is no longer sufficient to drive it against the resistance.

The fan-heater will never really start working, the power available will be plenty to run the fan but the heater element resistance is far too low, it will draw more current than the system is capable of supplying. Either the generator's terminal voltage will drop until the fan-heater is drawing 200W, or the driving motor will stall and overheat/trip it's overcurrent protection.

Increasing the load on a generator does not cause the prime mover to spin faster, it causes it to spin slower and push harder as more power is demanded. The speed of an AC motor is determined by it's input frequency within the limits of it's rating, and the output frequency of a generator is determined by how fast it is driven. The motor won't just carry on spinning because it's shaft is linked to the generator.

Please, please consider carefully our responses before bouncing back with another "Yeah, but..". We've heard all the "Yeah, but"s, they're all just variations on the same theme.
Ok I'm very sorry for annoying you I didn't mean to do that, also I actually am starting to understand what you mean and it will just take me a few hours to myself to think things through, like with me I find that I start to understand things a lot later then the usual human hahaha, but thank you for your comment and I shall not annoy you again. I see this as constructive criticism and I won't take it the wrong way.
 
Sorry guys again but I think this other system all mine may have over come some of the flaws we mentioned before, and I know everyone will get annoyed with me and some people may block me especially @ElectroChem but let's say you have a fully pressurised tank of air and you blow that pressurised air at a turbine connected to a generator, ovisously the generator will then start to create a voltage and when connected to a battery it will charge it, what if you then use that charge from the battery to spin a motor that spins a piston which then repressurises the tank and it creates a cycle again, and also the pressurised air tank at this point is still got some it's original pressurised air left inside and it won't get used up so fast, think how long it would take to empty a full can of deodorant. @darkwood
 
@ajay123

Make what you're thinking will work and talk us through it.

This might help a few people out when it comes to this. Maybe?
 
@ajay123

Make what you're thinking will work and talk us through it.

This might help a few people out when it comes to this. Maybe?
Thank you for your reply and thing is I don't want make it yet you see until I have enough evidence that it will actually work, like in my head is does work and thing is that this is different to the last two of my ideas and I really think this one might just work, I just need more opinions though, and I know everyone has been through the other two ideas with me a thousand times but this one is different, you know what I mean.
 
and thing is that this is different to the last two of my ideas and I really think this one might just work, I just need more opinions though,

It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that
 
It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that
Thank you for your reply, I need to think things through
 
It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that
Yea even if you include all the losses such at heat, machincal movement from frictions and even sound, there will still be enough power available, just imagine the system running in your head, and include all the losses, the high air pressure could be spinning a 3000w generator at the correct rpm and if you included all the losses then for example then the generator will be outputing let's say 2500w and then the motor maybe a 200w motor, that's enough power to supply the motor again, and don't forget that there is still the remaining air pressure left which is still spinning the generator via a turbine, and the air pressure is being topped up be the motor.
 
@ajay123, how is your level 2 training going? Are you on top of all the theory for the job that we are training for and the speciality you intend to go for? There seems to be an obsession with this thread of yours and unless you are stringing everyone along, put your energy into something that will benefit you and your future. I'm Not being mean but Tel, very early on in this thread, showed an emoji banging its head against a wall. . . . Regards Rob
 
Yea even if you include all the losses such at heat, mechanical movement from frictions and even sound, there will still be enough power available, just imagine the system running in your head, and include all the losses, the high air pressure could be spinning a 3000w generator at the correct rpm and if you included all the losses then for example then the generator will be outputing let's say 2500w and then the motor maybe a 200w motor, that's enough power to supply the motor again, and don't forget that there is still the remaining air pressure left which is still spinning the generator via a turbine, and the air pressure is being topped up be the motor.

This is my last response to this thread.

NO THERE WON'T, it's all in your imagination it CANNOT happen.
 
@ajay123, how is your level 2 training going? Are you on top of all the theory for the job that we are training for and the speciality you intend to go for? There seems to be an obsession with this thread of yours and unless you are stringing everyone along, put your energy into something that will benefit you and your future. I'm Not being mean but Tel, very early on in this thread, showed an emoji banging its head against a wall. . . . Regards Rob
I'm not on level 2 I have completed level 3 and now on a NVQ
 
This is my last response to this thread.

NO THERE WON'T, it's all in your imagination it CANNOT happen.
I'm not being bad but your not saying why tho, tell what it is that it won't work even when losses are counted for.
 
Sorry I read it on your profile, are you getting on well with it. Are you getting mentored well. General questions now as I'm Plowing my way through mine at the same time as electricians mate full time. I fell on my feet with the guy I work with, the work is varied and constant but when it does go quiet between jobs I get onto the NVQ writing up evidence. Are you working full time?
 
Sorry I read it on your profile, are you getting on well with it. Are you getting mentored well. General questions now as I'm Plowing my way through mine at the same time as electricians mate full time. I fell on my feet with the guy I work with, the work is varied and constant but when it does go quiet between jobs I get onto the NVQ writing up evidence. Are you working full time?
That's ok and yea it's going really good actually and I'm being mentored really well, I'm working four days a week and one day at college, the last two years was just at college and this is my final year then I will be qualified.
 
Cheers, I think everyone is annoyed with me on this thread because I'm used to getting loads of replies but today I have not.
@ajay123 I haven't read all 102 posts in this thread and I don't have time to at the moment, but it would appear you have asked a question which as been answered several times by some very experienced members but yet you won't except those answers.
It may be an idea to go back and read this thread from the beginning and see if you have missed anything in all the replies, because it seems daft to ask a question and then refuse to except the same answer provided by several qualified and experienced Electricians. I know if in your head you think your'e right then it's hard to admit it may be wrong but that is kind of the point of asking for help in the first place.

EDIT*** Just to add the above comments are not me having a go, the whole idea of the forum is to ask questions and it is also nice to see your level of passion and intrigue for the job and also the subject matter. But having said that sometimes we all have to admit we've missed something or got something not quite right, and as an Electrician once we can accept that and accept help that is what make a Good Electrician an even better one.
Regards GMES.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
@ajay123 I haven't read all 102 posts in this thread and I don't have time to at the moment, but it would appear you have asked a question which as been answered several times by some very experienced members but yet you won't except those answers.
It may be an idea to go back and read this thread from the beginning and see if you have missed anything in all the replies, because it seems daft to ask a question and then refuse to except the same answer provided by several qualified and experienced Electricians. I know if in your head you think your'e right then it's hard to admit it may be wrong but that is kind of the point of asking for help in the first place.

EDIT*** Just to add the above comments are not me having a go, the whole idea of the forum is to ask questions and it is also nice to see your level of passion and intrigue for the job and also the subject matter. But having said that sometimes we all have to admit we've missed something or got something not quite right, and as an Electrician once we can accept that and accept help that is what make a Good Electrician an even better one.
Regards GMES.
Thank you for your reply and I have accepted the help for my first two ideas, it's just I can't get my head around this specific idea, just this one, because it seems very different to the rest of them, would you explain why this would not work, I kinder already know that it won't work it's just I don't know why it won't work, I just can't seem to understand that part, because with me I like to see how things work or why is doesn't work, I don't like to see something work or not work and not knowing why. You know what I mean.
 
this could keep going forever in a loop (perpetual m.. ?) until you read and understand the answers. instead of asking for each specific idea to be disproved, try to understand the physics (that has been explained very well). then when you understand (accept) that it is impossible, you will be able to have fun working out why it doesn't work yourself! for any future ideas. even the top physicists play this game, and sometimes it takes even them a few years!
 
that wikipedia link is quite good too. though somehow it led to far too many hours last night being lost to entropy and some cat in a box..

goddamn physics..
 
this could keep going forever in a loop (perpetual m.. ?) until you read and understand the answers. instead of asking for each specific idea to be disproved, try to understand the physics (that has been explained very well). then when you understand (accept) that it is impossible, you will be able to have fun working out why it doesn't work yourself! for any future ideas. even the top physicists play this game, and sometimes it takes even them a few years!
Thank you for your reply, I'm not saying this in a bad why but your not telling how, tell me step by step why this wouldn't work, remember the motor/piston doesn't need to be one all the time, the motor/piston only turns itself on when the pressure inside the tank gets to a certain PSI.
 
To compress air and store it in a tank uses lots of energy and wastes a lot too . Some of the losses are friction heat noise there are more.
The turbine will have losses too
so for every kw you put in you dont get a kw out in driving force you get a kw out including losses like heat etc.

Have a look on youtube using the law of energy non of the machines actually work most have an air stream blowing then around or hidden batterys/power cords.
I can usually figure them out and even made a copy of one that works and posted it on here. (the small watch batterys are easily hidden)
 
To compress air and store it in a tank uses lots of energy and wastes a lot too . Some of the losses are friction heat noise there are more.
The turbine will have losses too
so for every kw you put in you dont get a kw out in driving force you get a kw out including losses like heat etc.

Have a look on youtube using the law of energy non of the machines actually work most have an air stream blowing then around or hidden batterys/power cords.
I can usually figure them out and even made a copy of one that works and posted it on here. (the small watch batterys are easily hidden)
 
@ajay123

I think one of your stumbling blocks is you confusion of ratings too, take a 3ph 3kw motor for instance, this is not 3kw of electrical power it draws from the mains, it relates to the available mechanical power at the shaft, this is why it used to be written in horse power and sometimes still is.

A motor gives a mechanical output measured in Kw or HP
A Gen' gives an electrical output measured in Kw or KVA (Where Kw is used then a PF of 0.8 is assumed as this is an unknown quantity as the manufacturer cannot determine the users load).

So when you start looking at your designs you have to decipher and/or convert values to get a true overview, also you have to realise that stored potential energy will be quickly lost when loaded up unless you maintain the full mechanical energy input (in the case of a generator) to get the rated electrical output.

To generate this mechanical movement you can use a variety of methods but unless its free energy source like a waterwheel using a river or wind etc then any other method like compressed air for example will always require more energy to compress the air than the can be extracted from the system to run a generator.

The maths can be very complicated when working power ratio's out in several formats but this is how you determine whether any system efficient, if you try to apply said calculations to any of your theories it will always show you what you are trying to do cannot ever work, you are in a sense trying to visualise an idea without the bother of all the complicated calculations - this is your biggest downfall but even that aside we use a seperate easier to understand response by expressing the issues of losses, inertial energy (stored power) etc.

The only way to do this without calculations is to do visual analogies which I kindly did many posts ago, this will apply to all such overunity systems where as in your recent idea you just need to change the moped for a large pressurised gas tank blowing the car on the flat which is conceivable but the minute you add load to the car IE an incline then the potential energy quickly disappears and the remaining compressed air cannot overcome the added load of the incline - in this case the load is trying to pressurise the gas which in turns pushes the car.... you end up with a graph where the line fall almost vertical of the paper as everything simply stalls.
 
To compress air and store it in a tank uses lots of energy and wastes a lot too . Some of the losses are friction heat noise there are more.
The turbine will have losses too
so for every kw you put in you dont get a kw out in driving force you get a kw out including losses like heat etc.

Have a look on youtube using the law of energy non of the machines actually work most have an air stream blowing then around or hidden batterys/power cords.
I can usually figure them out and even made a copy of one that works and posted it on here. (the small watch batterys are easily hidden)
Thank you for your reply and I 100 percent understand now, it has all come back to me and my mind finally realises where I went wrong, cheers
 
@ajay123

I think one of your stumbling blocks is you confusion of ratings too, take a 3ph 3kw motor for instance, this is not 3kw of electrical power it draws from the mains, it relates to the available mechanical power at the shaft, this is why it used to be written in horse power and sometimes still is.

A motor gives a mechanical output measured in Kw or HP
A Gen' gives an electrical output measured in Kw or KVA (Where Kw is used then a PF of 0.8 is assumed as this is an unknown quantity as the manufacturer cannot determine the users load).

So when you start looking at your designs you have to decipher and/or convert values to get a true overview, also you have to realise that stored potential energy will be quickly lost when loaded up unless you maintain the full mechanical energy input (in the case of a generator) to get the rated electrical output.

To generate this mechanical movement you can use a variety of methods but unless its free energy source like a waterwheel using a river or wind etc then any other method like compressed air for example will always require more energy to compress the air than the can be extracted from the system to run a generator.

The maths can be very complicated when working power ratio's out in several formats but this is how you determine whether any system efficient, if you try to apply said calculations to any of your theories it will always show you what you are trying to do cannot ever work, you are in a sense trying to visualise an idea without the bother of all the complicated calculations - this is your biggest downfall but even that aside we use a seperate easier to understand response by expressing the issues of losses, inertial energy (stored power) etc.

The only way to do this without calculations is to do visual analogies which I kindly did many posts ago, this will apply to all such overunity systems where as in your recent idea you just need to change the moped for a large pressurised gas tank blowing the car on the flat which is conceivable but the minute you add load to the car IE an incline then the potential energy quickly disappears and the remaining compressed air cannot overcome the added load of the incline - in this case the load is trying to pressurise the gas which in turns pushes the car.... you end up with a graph where the line fall almost vertical of the paper as everything simply stalls.
I finally realise where I went wrong and now that was my last idea, I have no more ideas left for me to carry on, so thank you for helping me understand everything, I really appreciate it.
 
I finally realise where I went wrong and now that was my last idea, I have no more ideas left for me to carry on, so thank you for helping me understand everything, I really appreciate it.

Dont lose your drive whilst perpetual motion cannot be done the theory and practice you use has lead to many inventions of the laws of physics.
Most of our brilliant engineers of the past have tried it. Look up Robert Boyles flask ! These machines get you thinking. I remember trying to make my first perpetual motion machine with a mecanno set when I was around 10 years old. Of course it didnt work (well it did but the oil companies kidnapped me etc )
 
Dont lose your drive whilst perpetual motion cannot be done the theory and practice you use has lead to many inventions of the laws of physics.
Most of our brilliant engineers of the past have tried it. Look up Robert Boyles flask ! These machines get you thinking. I remember trying to make my first perpetual motion machine with a mecanno set when I was around 10 years old. Of course it didnt work (well it did but the oil companies kidnapped me etc )
Cheers for the support.
 
Lots of things have been discovered by people looking for other things unrelated to their main objective .
Penicillin is probably the most famous.
Enthusiasm is a great attribute , keep chipping away.
Yea I know what you mean, thank you
 
perpetual motion does exist. it's otherwise known as my lady's gob.
 

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I Think I May Have Found Free Renewable Energy
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