I Think I May Have Found Free Renewable Energy

[ajay123]

The 200W motor can turn an unloaded generator, but as soon as you put >200W of load on the output, the motor will overload, slow down and stall. You will never get 3000W out of the system for more than 1-2 seconds as the inertia of the rotor is used up. The power rating of a motor reflects how much force it can continuously apply at it's rated speed, being able to spin up a heavy load over several seconds does not mean it can run it once load is applied.

A generator does not create electricity, it's just an energy converter turning mechanical motion into electrical motion.

I've got a little practical demonstration for you. Take a 200W motor, drive it off the mains supply, never mind trying to loop it back for now. Use it to run a 3KVA generator and try to run a 2000W fan heater off the generator output. You won't be able to, the motor will stall.

I don't want to seem too annoying but how will the motor stall or overload because it's the generator that is feeding the fan and if the fan needs more power from the generator even if it isn't creating enough power to do so, won't the fan just stop working because if the generator needs more power it's not going to let's say ask the motor to spin faster, won't the motor just carry on spinning even after the fan has turn off because it's still connected to the mains, unless you mean when too much power is being drawn from the generator it physically creates more friction which will but more resistance and strain on the motors shaft forcing it to ask for more current from the mains until over loading and tripping the circuit breaker.

 

[Darkwood]

Ajay you over thinking this and not taking in what we are saying, read my moped analogy again, you can easily run a gen up to speed with a smaller motor as all it has to do load wise is turn it freely on its bearings but the minute you add a load to the generator it requires the mechanical force turning it to keep it moving at its rated speed to deliver the 3kw output, if you trying running it off a 200w motor then it will fail to maintain the speed and stall, like expressed above, the plate state optimum output but to make use of this then it must maintain full speed under load, because it's only got a fraction of what it's plate is rated at been input via the small motor then it will just stall and trip you small motor supply or burn the motor out if not protected.

 

[ElectroChem]

You're starting to annoy me. Either you're deliberately being obtuse or simply not listening to our answers.

The generator IS NOT driving the fan. The generator is just one link in a chain of energy conversions that goes back to the power station burning coal or splitting uranium. Every step along the way you lose energy to inefficiencies, never do you gain it. You cannot get more energy out of a machine than you put in, no matter how many times you change the wording of the question.

Energy is not infinite and neither is our patience. I'll give you one last good-faith answer, after that you'll be blocked as a waste of mental effort.

The motor will stall because more output is being demanded of it than it is capable of providing. Overloaded motors slow and stall because that is the physical outcome of placing too much back force on their rotating magnetic field, the force pushing on the rotor is no longer sufficient to drive it against the resistance.

The fan-heater will never really start working, the power available will be plenty to run the fan but the heater element resistance is far too low, it will draw more current than the system is capable of supplying. Either the generator's terminal voltage will drop until the fan-heater is drawing 200W, or the driving motor will stall and overheat/trip it's overcurrent protection.

Increasing the load on a generator does not cause the prime mover to spin faster, it causes it to spin slower and push harder as more power is demanded. The speed of an AC motor is determined by it's input frequency within the limits of it's rating, and the output frequency of a generator is determined by how fast it is driven. The motor won't just carry on spinning because it's shaft is linked to the generator.

Please, please consider carefully our responses before bouncing back with another "Yeah, but..". We've heard all the "Yeah, but"s, they're all just variations on the same theme.

 

[ajay123]

Ajay you over thinking this and not taking in what we are saying, read my moped analogy again, you can easily run a gen up to speed with a smaller motor as all it has to do load wise is turn it freely on its bearings but the minute you add a load to the generator it requires the mechanical force turning it to keep it moving at its rated speed to deliver the 3kw output, if you trying running it off a 200w motor then it will fail to maintain the speed and stall, like expressed above, the plate state optimum output but to make use of this then it must maintain full speed under load, because it's only got a fraction of what it's plate is rated at been input via the small motor then it will just stall and trip you small motor supply or burn the motor out if not protected.

Right ok, I think I may need some extra time to think things through and to sort my head out. But thanks anyways.

 

[snowhead]

You need to be standing in front of what you are thinking about and witness what happens.
All will become blindingly obvious.

 

[ajay123]

You're starting to annoy me. Either you're deliberately being obtuse or simply not listening to our answers.

The generator IS NOT driving the fan. The generator is just one link in a chain of energy conversions that goes back to the power station burning coal or splitting uranium. Every step along the way you lose energy to inefficiencies, never do you gain it. You cannot get more energy out of a machine than you put in, no matter how many times you change the wording of the question.

Energy is not infinite and neither is our patience. I'll give you one last good-faith answer, after that you'll be blocked as a waste of mental effort.

The motor will stall because more output is being demanded of it than it is capable of providing. Overloaded motors slow and stall because that is the physical outcome of placing too much back force on their rotating magnetic field, the force pushing on the rotor is no longer sufficient to drive it against the resistance.

The fan-heater will never really start working, the power available will be plenty to run the fan but the heater element resistance is far too low, it will draw more current than the system is capable of supplying. Either the generator's terminal voltage will drop until the fan-heater is drawing 200W, or the driving motor will stall and overheat/trip it's overcurrent protection.

Increasing the load on a generator does not cause the prime mover to spin faster, it causes it to spin slower and push harder as more power is demanded. The speed of an AC motor is determined by it's input frequency within the limits of it's rating, and the output frequency of a generator is determined by how fast it is driven. The motor won't just carry on spinning because it's shaft is linked to the generator.

Please, please consider carefully our responses before bouncing back with another "Yeah, but..". We've heard all the "Yeah, but"s, they're all just variations on the same theme.

Ok I'm very sorry for annoying you I didn't mean to do that, also I actually am starting to understand what you mean and it will just take me a few hours to myself to think things through, like with me I find that I start to understand things a lot later then the usual human hahaha, but thank you for your comment and I shall not annoy you again. I see this as constructive criticism and I won't take it the wrong way.

 

[ajay123]

Sorry guys again but I think this other system all mine may have over come some of the flaws we mentioned before, and I know everyone will get annoyed with me and some people may block me especially @ElectroChem but let's say you have a fully pressurised tank of air and you blow that pressurised air at a turbine connected to a generator, ovisously the generator will then start to create a voltage and when connected to a battery it will charge it, what if you then use that charge from the battery to spin a motor that spins a piston which then repressurises the tank and it creates a cycle again, and also the pressurised air tank at this point is still got some it's original pressurised air left inside and it won't get used up so fast, think how long it would take to empty a full can of deodorant. @darkwood

 

[ajay123]

There's still a lot of stored energy left in the pressurised tank of air

 

[Dan]

@ajay123

Make what you're thinking will work and talk us through it.

This might help a few people out when it comes to this. Maybe?

 

[ajay123]

@ajay123

Make what you're thinking will work and talk us through it.

This might help a few people out when it comes to this. Maybe?

Thank you for your reply and thing is I don't want make it yet you see until I have enough evidence that it will actually work, like in my head is does work and thing is that this is different to the last two of my ideas and I really think this one might just work, I just need more opinions though, and I know everyone has been through the other two ideas with me a thousand times but this one is different, you know what I mean.

 

[Silly Sausage]

 

[snowhead]

Well if Scotty says so I'm happy with that.:bananas:

 

[snowhead]

and thing is that this is different to the last two of my ideas and I really think this one might just work, I just need more opinions though,

It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that

 

[ajay123]

It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that

Thank you for your reply, I need to think things through

 

[ajay123]

It's exactly the same as all your ideas.
You're starting with stored energy, straight away you've lost the idea of perpetual or free.

You're "Thinking " there might be enough energy to keep the system going, you haven't calculated it or experimented on a small scale.

If you did you'd find there won't be, the losses make sure of that

Yea even if you include all the losses such at heat, machincal movement from frictions and even sound, there will still be enough power available, just imagine the system running in your head, and include all the losses, the high air pressure could be spinning a 3000w generator at the correct rpm and if you included all the losses then for example then the generator will be outputing let's say 2500w and then the motor maybe a 200w motor, that's enough power to supply the motor again, and don't forget that there is still the remaining air pressure left which is still spinning the generator via a turbine, and the air pressure is being topped up be the motor.