Immersion Heater - PV electricity

[trebormint]

Wot, 5 day's later and no response??
hmm.... is it me and my mate Fred who knows a lot about lectric stuff?

I'm sorry to have kept you waiting; I don't visit the forum every day.
The device I mentioned is a being tested at an installation in Southampton. When we're completely satisfied with it's performance I'll post a thread giving more details.

 

[suntrap]

Another commercial product then? Why are people being so clandestine about them? Are they worried that they are infringing patents so are only giving details to people who approach them privately? Doesn't cost anything to make a website giving full details of what you are trying to flog.

 

[pauldreed]

Another commercial product then? Why are people being so clandestine about them? Are they worried that they are infringing patents so are only giving details to people who approach them privately? Doesn't cost anything to make a website giving full details of what you are trying to flog.

I agree Suntrap!
I suspect that they do not believe that their designs would survive scrutiny, and hide behind this 'patent' rubbish. If I am wrong - please post your patent registration details here and surprise me!
I have no commercial interest, but if you want to see how my system performs click here to see real live stats.
...and to see how I got there, see my blog powerhub.info
It would be good for the commercial developers to do similar...

 

[inie meanie]

Would recommend a two stage filter Buy Power Line Filter 2 stage chassis mount filter,16A Schaffner FN 2060-16/06 online from RS for next day delivery. this one is under £30 you can get a single stage for half that but not sure it would pass CE. DIN rail mounted ones are available as well but horribly expensive £100 touch

As a follow up to the filters quote. I have purchased a Schaffner 2060-16/06 for £2.88 off ebay. All fited within half an hour, just at the output of the Triac. I have since found out that that all electronic apparatus sold or taken into service within the EU must comply with the essential requirements of the EMC directive 2004/108/EC. Failure to do so is a criminal offence in the uk.

Sounds a bit heavy handed but you can buy these very effective two stage filters on ebay very cheaply in an auction or as a buy it now , see links

eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
eBay - The UK's Online Marketplace
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/250892028047?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648 other auction sites are available :- )

or just search for 'Schaffner FN2020A-20-06 ' these are for £12 inc delivery so too cheep not too!

Thanks to the members for bringing this to my attention.

 

[suntrap]

Haha - those cheap power supplies, battery chargers etc you get from the likes of DealExtreme don't have any filter components in them.

 

[pauldreed]

Haha - those cheap power supplies, battery chargers etc you get from the likes of DealExtreme don't have any filter components in them.

That's probably why they are on DealExtreme!!

 

[inie meanie]

Haha - those cheap power supplies, battery chargers etc you get from the likes of DealExtreme don't have any filter components in them.

Well it must depend on their design.If they don't use a triac then they dont need any thing I suppose. Just a regulated output via a FET etc they won't have that problem.

 

[chriswarhurst]

Hello all,

New to this and picked up a google search thread - my company has developed a 240v low power immersion heater for domestic installation that incorporates 2 elements a 250w and 500w into one immersion heater. The idea is that it compliments your solar PV array and heats your water tank up slowly throughout the day. Starting at 250w, switching to 500w, then switching both on which gives you 750w then back to 500w then 250w later in the day. It works really well - we received the prototype last week and it works really well on its own connected to a simple timer. If you have developed a switching system tied to the inverter then I would be really interested in talking to you about it. contactable on [email protected]

 

[pauldreed]

Hello all,

New to this and picked up a google search thread - my company has developed a 240v low power immersion heater for domestic installation that incorporates 2 elements a 250w and 500w into one immersion heater. The idea is that it compliments your solar PV array and heats your water tank up slowly throughout the day. Starting at 250w, switching to 500w, then switching both on which gives you 750w then back to 500w then 250w later in the day. It works really well - we received the prototype last week and it works really well on its own connected to a simple timer. If you have developed a switching system tied to the inverter then I would be really interested in talking to you about it. contactable on [email protected]

Hi Chris, what length is the element(s)? and does it have a inbuilt thermostat?
... oh, and how much money!!

 

[chriswarhurst]

The immerser is made from Incoloy - 11” long with a standard 21/4 inch BSP thread. 240v TWIN element version 1 x 500w and 1 x 250w including two 7” stat pockets and two TSDR stats. If its a one off purchase its £110 + VAT if you are looking at bulk we can come down in price. Got to say the figures it producing so far are fantastic - effectively it is raising the water temperature high enough so that the boiler is currently switched off - and for free as the power it is drawing is within the output of the 3.8 Kw Solar Array. Watching the performance closely as we head into the winter months. Hope this helps

 

[suntrap]

Well it must depend on their design.If they don't use a triac then they dont need any thing I suppose. Just a regulated output via a FET etc they won't have that problem.

No, they are standard switch-mode designs (power supplies, not power controllers) which all need mains filtering. Their PCBs have positions for filtering components but these are all missing!

 

[suntrap]

it works really well on its own connected to a simple timer

Unfortunately, connecting it to a timer is a very inefficient way of maximising your use of solar power whilst minimising (or for most, preferably eliminating) your draw from the grid - the difference between output when the sun is shining and on a dull day is easily a factor of ten and a timer cannot predict this.

If you have developed a switching system tied to the inverter then I would be really interested in talking to you about it.

Read this thread and you will see that there are several such systems, one (sadly, only one) of which has had all its details published and made available on a royalty-free basis.

 

[pauldreed]

The immerser is made from Incoloy - 11” long with a standard 21/4 inch BSP thread. 240v TWIN element version 1 x 500w and 1 x 250w including two 7” stat pockets and two TSDR stats. If its a one off purchase its £110 + VAT if you are looking at bulk we can come down in price. Got to say the figures it producing so far are fantastic - effectively it is raising the water temperature high enough so that the boiler is currently switched off - and for free as the power it is drawing is within the output of the 3.8 Kw Solar Array. Watching the performance closely as we head into the winter months. Hope this helps

Chris, this sounds very much like an element designed for boats - not domestic hot water systems, and for the majority of this thread's readers would be unsuitable for the following reasons;
1) As suntrap has commented, using a timer is inefficient as on dull days, the power would be drawn from the grid, therefore a more complex switching solution should be sought.
2) Hot water rises to the top of the tank, therefore if top mounted (as is the norm) then this element would only heat the top 11", leaving the majority of the tank cold (would work OK if it could be bottom fitted).

 

[chriswarhurst]

Its an adaption of a standard immersion heater that uses two low power 240v immersers - we can do an 11 inch or 27 inch for larger tanks. The timer I agree is a crude mechanism balanced against a 3800 w Solar PV system. The array puts out 400w on the most cloudy rainy day so 250w from 0900 till 1500 hrs is background power consumption. The 500w element kicks in at 1130 till 1330 so still well within average power tolerances. You are right in that the switching mechanism is suboptimal but I disagree with the word inefficient it depends on the cost basis. A simple electronic timer costs £38. A bespoke emma unit is over £1000 so the cost benefit analysis over time against a viable use of the energy in heating hot water actually makes it very efficient.

As far as the tank is concerned - this is designed to sit in the top third horizontally so it only heats up the top 100 Ltrs or so. That means it is not wasted in trying to heat the whole tank up - something that it just does not have the power to do. 100 Ltrs of water is enough for average normal domestic use. Modern mains pressure systems have the immerser mounted horizontally in the top third of the tank. This system is not designed to sit vertically at the top of the tank as is common with older HW cylinders. Its not perfect but it is working and producing free hot water. Hope this is of use

 

[pauldreed]

...The array puts out 400w on the most cloudy rainy day..

Yes but how much power is being used in your home... fridge, freezer, etc, offset home consumption against your 400W, and there won't be a lot left for the immersion heater.

... but I disagree with the word inefficient...

IMO inefficient is an accurate description! if you put the washer on, boil the kettle, dishwasher etc. where does the power come from to power the immersion heater? The grid of course, which is kWh chargeable.

...A simple electronic timer costs £38. A bespoke emma unit is over £1000 ..

You havn't grasped the concept of this thread!
We are trying to develop cost effective control systems, albeit in different ways, which cost far less than £1,000 and nearer the £38 mark.