Immersion Heating PV Electricity Supply > ElectriciansForums.net

Discuss Immersion Heater - PV electricity in the Central Heating Systems area at ElectriciansForums.net

Inie - yup, I agree with your numbers. However the issue may not be what they're paying for export electricity theyre not getting, but rather the cost they otherwise have to invest to get those MW of electricity from somewhere else ? That cost could be much higher than the cost of fitting smart meters....

Can they change the contract? We have both agreed a tariff which included a 3p for 50%. Even if meters are fitted, there’s no guarantee that they could or would change the arrangement for existing customers. So I say just carry on and do what is best for the information and policy that we have now.
 
Can they change the contract? We have both agreed a tariff which included a 3p for 50%. Even if meters are fitted, there’s no guarantee that they could or would change the arrangement for existing customers. So I say just carry on and do what is best for the information and policy that we have now.

I agree, the rate probably can't change. But I'd expect our contracts state an assumption of 50% generated or actual as measured, should a smart meter be fitted. Must check it out, (if the legalese is intelligible).

BTW, Inie, I think I read somewhere on this (rather long) thread that you've also designed a controller ? Can you point me to some info please. Presumably proportional ? (Or stepped ?). Thanks.

I was amazed, when I recently discovered this forum, at how this thread has stimulated ideas & developments. Open source philosophy at its best.
 
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Hi yes Analogue / proportional all the way. pm me with your email and I will send you some links etc,

HI inie meani , your analogue approach sounds good to me ,
I tried to pm you but your inbox is full !
probably with the same requests for information ,
any chance you could pm me your email so I can respond with mine and circumvent the full inbox on the forums
if you are willing to pass on the links etc .
 
Hi folks, dont know if any else has come up with a device that actually works, but my device is nearly ready for sale.
It determines how much solar energy is spare and diverts it into the immersion heater.
There is no need to change the immersion heater to a 1kw or 2kw so you can keep the standard 3kw fitted.
email [email protected]
 
echase quote:

"How do you get £0.081/kWh? Is that because in summer you fall below the usage required to get into the cheaper tariff? Not sure how they decide this tariff, is it based on a quarter by quarter usage or averaged over a year?"

E.ON calculates the higher tariff on a daily basis ie in my case 900kWh/year divided by 365 (approx 2.5kWh) charged at the higher rate for each day first plus the remaining power used that same day at the lower rate.

I had been skeptical that daily basis was used, as how do they know the daily usage when meter is read quarterly at best and probably six monthly, with rest estimated? However I just talked to a couple of utility tariff experts at Uswitch like companies and they say the companies can but vary as to whether they take a daily/quarterly view or average over the year.

Let us assume you have quarterly readings or at least quarterly estimates that are good, and that the company uses a quarterly/daily view rather than an annual average. Say in summer you use gas for water heating. Assume all the gas usage falls below the 900kWh/year (varies with plan you are on) pro rata because you have no/minimal gas cookers, etc. to take you over the 900kWh.

So all of your water heating is charged to you at the higher (about 8p plus 5% VAT) rate. So at 70% gas to hot water conversion efficiency you are paying 12p per kWh delivered to water. That is 3 times the 4p per unit often quoted on this forum. So that is the price of the gas you no longer have to buy if you have a controller. As most of the benefit of your controller comes in the summer months, because the sunshine is much greater and house electricity consumption perhaps a bit less, it means that over the whole year probably more than 50% of the cost benefit can be assumed to be at the higher rate. So that is another big cost benefit of a controller.

It's going to be a very difficult calculation to get right as so much depends on when you breach the 900kWh limit and when your quarterly bills are timed relative to summer. It is important to give the Utility readings that reflect your low usage rather than let them estimate you higher.

There is another saving you can make if you pay a standing charge rather than are on a two tier tariff as above. The standing charge is paid even if you use no gas. But if you switch to a two tier tariff, which is designed to pay a pseudo standing change in a different way, on the quarters you use next to no gas you are effectively paying less pseudo standing charge, reducing you overall bill. So that is another cost benefit of a controller.

That is all probably as clear as mud to you.

As an aside, since electricity is also about 12p it costs no more to use the immersion for top ups in summer when solar insufficient. So boiler can be completely off until you need it for home heating, saving the pilot light cost (if you have one) and arguably a boiler that is off is more reliable than one fired up a couple of times a week for short periods, which just collects corroding condensation. I don’t know what (boiler capital cost + whole life maintenance cost)/(kWr produced over lifetime) comes to but probably not insignificant and needs to be added to fuel cost.
 
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There is an interesting thread at the openenergyforum
Solar Energy Management | OpenEnergyMonitor
It looks like someone has built a fully controllable solar controller useing zero cross and burst firing. This removes the need to use expensive crydom or phase angle controllers, which cost £70 plus. So you should be able to build yourself a unit for under £50.
 
There is an interesting thread at the openenergyforum
Solar Energy Management | OpenEnergyMonitor
It looks like someone has built a fully controllable solar controller useing zero cross and burst firing. This removes the need to use expensive crydom or phase angle controllers, which cost £70 plus. So you should be able to build yourself a unit for under £50.

But there is doubt expressed there that it legal to use burst firing at such high currents due to the electrical interference caused; may not be the medium frequency interference that phase control gives but the pulsation on mains is apparently not nice.
 

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