In defence of the short course trainee

[down2earth]

I know this has been discussed before but I would like to give my own perspective on the issue of the 5 week wonders which seems to cause much wailing and gnashing of teeth.

3 years ago, at the age of 40, with the prospect of looming redundancy and not having any viable skills in the real world (air traffic control background since the age of 17) I read the glossy advertising and the slick sales patter and signed up for a Part P course. After finishing the course it is only then that you start to realise the vast gaps in your knowledge and experience. In my case I quickly signed up with Elecsa and could have started out on my own, however, I wasn't comfortable and found a local sparky who was happy to use me on an occasional basis which is still the case today. The point being I was in a position where I didn't have to pay a mortgage, feed kids etc etc. Most of the people who sign up for these courses are using an opportunity to learn a new skill and hopefully make some money, sometimes out of necessity due to redundancy etc.

I realise that some of the threads have you slapping your heads in frustration but generally they are well intentioned questions posed by people trying to expand their knowledge. The tone of some of the replies are distinctly hostile and if anything is going to stop people asking questions then it is that, surely it's better to have someone asking a stupid question but getting a sensible reply than not asking at all and potentially going off and putting their own or someone elses life in danger.

The system is flawed I agree, but as an outsider prior to signing up for a quick course you have absolutely no idea how much there is to learn, looking around a normal house at the sockets and lights you think 'well how difficult can it be?'. The answer is very, but the majority of us are well intentiond and have simply taken advantage of an opportunity.

Thanks for reading

 

[mhar]

Don't think anyone is questioning the motives for people doing a 5 day course and I think you have correctly identified the problem in that you cannot possibly have the experience just from a 5 day course. However, with a course such as the 2330 over 2 / 3 years, every day you are at school and everytime you learn something new, you realise how much you don't know. It's a bit like a baloon, the more you inflate it (learn) the more the cubic capacity increases (the amount you realise you don't know). Therefore, I believe the issue is more to do with the way these courses are sold in that prospective students are led to believe that they are competent to do x, y and z (which they probably are), but without the fundamental understanding of how electricity 'works', anything not straightforward or unusual may not be tackled correctly. Can this knowledge be learnt on a three year course? Obviously not but as this balloon is bigger, you will have covered more ground and will be better able to make judgements and understand why.
I think that sometimes on this forum some of the older hands DO react adversely to '5 day wonders'. I agree with you but would put it slightly stronger, by posting a problem you are admitting to your lack of knowledge / experience and surely that is a good thing and shows the correct attitude and willingness to learn and understand. Should not the worry be about people who don't post maybe because they believe the hype they were given and think they know it all.
I am on the 2330 (3rd year) by the way and even though I am qualified enough to sign up with ELECSA I too am looking to learn from good local electricians by working with them on an occasional and informal basis, asking 'daft' questions along the way no doubt

 

[malcolmsanford]

I'm sure it is quite simple if I went of a 5 week angioplasty course to insert a cable into a thigh vein, up through these veins into the heart leave the stent, inflate it and remove the wire. After all there is no cutting involved, I don't need to have a working knowledge of veins, hearts , the human body etc etc, all I need to do it find a vein, there's not that many in the thigh, insert a very small wire and appliance and keep pushing it while watching a TV screen until it reaches the heart. press a button to release a bit of flexible wire mesh, inflate it and then take the wire delivery system out, in fact I reckon I could do that after a few attempts on a dummy , no problems.

If this was the case, could you imagine what would happen when your wheeled in and the guy who is doing this tells you, I was made redundant a few months back, I was an accountant for 20 yrs and did this 5 week course, so fully competent now ................. You would be running out of the hospital in the gown.

It's not the guys that have done the course, it's not so much the course providers, it's the dumbing down of my industry that rankles me so much.

"Sparks, nothing to it is there, pull a few cables in, connect up a few terminals, and jobs a goodun innit, anyone can do it after a few attempts"

And off they go. But like the guy putting your stent in, yes 99 times out of 100 its a matter of

"Shove this wire up a leg, watch a TV screen, press a button, take the wire out, jobs a goodun innit"

But what about the 100th time when something don't go right, don't go to plan and is getting a little worrying. To me that is like all professions, trades or skills, looks easy and is easy to those trained to do it, not so easy if something happens out of the norm and you have been shown how to do it, trained to pass an exam, but woe betide if you ever need to UNDERSTAND, what you are doing.

 

[flukey]

i think the reason most take offence is because on most occasions the op has already done the job and is looking for a way out of a mess.

everyone needs a job and we all need help from time to time but the idea is to ask before you tackle something you clearly know is out of your depth :uhoh2:

 

[telectrix]

so that's put the dampers on my 5 week brain surgery course, then.

 

[malcolmsanford]

so that's put the dampers on my 5 week brain surgery course, then.

Why not mate, shave a bit of hair, angle grinder on a bit of bone, flip the top off, have a poke around, cauterize a few things jobs a goodun innit

 

[telectrix]

got all the tools anyway, cordless drill ( with hammer for plumbers' skulls ), long-nosed pliers ( for kitchen fitters' thick skulls ), and the reader's digest DIY frankenstein kit.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

down2earth,

in short the industry was compromised, but you are correct, you were simply taking advantage of an opportunity.

It will continue to rile electricians that had to do it the hard way, there will never be a way of changing that. And the mass of registered electricians that did not do it the hard way will probably never go away now. Because they generate an enormous revenue for many others!

It's a mess really.

 

[Adam W]

i think the reason most take offence is because on most occasions the op has already done the job and is looking for a way out of a mess.

everyone needs a job and we all need help from time to time but the idea is to ask before you tackle something you clearly know is out of your depth :uhoh2:

I can understand where they're coming from - Electrical Trainee is sold the solution to all their problems for £8k or so, is told what they want to hear by the salesmen at the training centre during the run-up to and throughout the course, finishes the course, buys a new van, sets up a business, puts an advert in the yellow pages, gets the first call, goes to the customer's house all bright eyed and bushy tailed: "my lights aren't working". Electrical Trainee gets his shiny new tester out of the box, plugs it in, presses a few buttons... "Ummmm..."
New thread on the forum, something along the lines of "I wasn't concentrating on the testing day, which button do I press on the fault code reader to tell me if the customer needs a rewire?"

Electrical Trainee is then abruptly brought to earth with 'solutions' such as "go to college" which is a stark contrast to the weeks of being sucked up to by the training salesmen - nobody likes to have their dreams shattered by being told they've just been conned out of their life savings, which could have been saved by asking on the forum beforehand.

 

[Octopus]

Yes its a mess (probably a bit of an understatement) however are my patch there is a interesting cross section of:

established sparkies, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
established sparkies, not registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, learning on the job doing good work
pub sparkies who don't give a dam
builders who don't give a dam
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
kitchen fitters, not resistered for part p, doing awful work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, not resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
DIR'ers who have knowledge doing a reasonable job
DIY'ers who don't have a clue about electrics or part P doing awful work

Bottom line is that those who have had electrical training and knowledge, IMHO, are those who are following the regs in some shape or form, whilst other trades don't give a dam - and that is where we should all be venting our frustration.

tin hat on

PS - yes its a mess.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Bit optimistic there Adam ................I thought inspection and testing was covered the period just before lunch on the 4th day and another in the recap when in the accounts department signing the last cheque

 

[Knobhead]

To quote my manager when he handed me my indentures, “now is the time you begin to learn”. After 4 years the company knew you wouldn’t know it all and would still need help. But the apron strings had to be cut at some time.

I’m sorry but 5 weeks at a training centre just doesn’t cut it with me. After 30+ years in the industry I wouldn’t be happy going in to a client’s home, it’s out of my comfort zone of heavy engineering.

 

[Dazed&confused]

Best thing is always to do research. I was thinking about signing up for one of these 5 week courses, however I had a look at what it would normally train to be a spark. When I realised it was an average three/four years, I realised that these courses were at best for DIY's who work on their own property. For this reason i signed up for the EAL level 2 course in college, hopefully in three years i can call myself a 'spark'

 

[Des 56]

To quote my manager when he handed me my indentures, “now is the time you begin to learn”. After 4 years the company knew you wouldn’t know it all and would still need help. But the apron strings had to be cut at some time.

I’m sorry but 5 weeks at a training centre just doesn’t cut it with me. After 30+ years in the industry I wouldn’t be happy going in to a client’s home, it’s out of my comfort zone of heavy engineering.

See if you can get a local part peer to work with,just to get some experience lol

You will learn about not exporting pme,rod depths.Unusually high Zs on TT systems,earthing plastic water pipes and how to condemn fuse boards as well
After a few weeks any faults you come across,you can post them up on here

 

[richy3333]

Yes its a mess (probably a bit of an understatement) however are my patch there is a interesting cross section of:

established sparkies, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
established sparkies, not registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, learning on the job doing good work
pub sparkies who don't give a dam
builders who don't give a dam
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
kitchen fitters, not resistered for part p, doing awful work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, not resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
DIR'ers who have knowledge doing a reasonable job
DIY'ers who don't have a clue about electrics or part P doing awful work

Bottom line is that those who have had electrical training and knowledge, IMHO, are those who are following the regs in some shape or form, whilst other trades don't give a dam - and that is where we should all be venting our frustration.

tin hat on

PS - yes its a mess.

Good post and well summarised. There's good and bad in all walks of life and in various contexts within the industry. 'We' don't make the rules, but only have to adhere to them. If people don't like the current methods of qualifying then please put your energies into usefully vocalising you concerns to those that can do something about it. Constant moaning and berating people who post on here does nothing positive. It's not the 'posters' fault that there are means to 'qualify' (yes I know they dont really) within 5 weeks, but it's the system that is at fault, not the person tapping into the training route(s).

To be honest, every couple of threads you read now involves someone being lambasted for not knowing something and being derided as a '5 week wonder'. It's damaging to the integrity of the forum and about time the forum moderators did something about it because the forum suffers for it. People will just stop posting - no posts, no forum! If you don't like a post/thread and cant be constructive, move on to another thread.