In defence of the short course trainee

[Engineer54]

I think i can confidently say, that not a single Electrical Trainee graduate is competent enough straight out of his course, to undertake work such as rewires, CU changes etc in someones home!! I don't care whether they have passed an assessment or not!! These guy's or girl's need to work along side seasoned qualified/experienced electricians to gain any form of competency to be able to work (and sign of there own work) on there own!!

These scheme providers only add to the problem, by allowing such inexperienced people to apply a trade they have only just come into, ...often those that hadn't even thought about being an electrician just a few weeks previously!!! ....But now classifying them as registered competent electricians, ...for a hefty fee of course!! lol!!

You could be the brightest new-comer going, coming out of one of these courses, but there just isn't any quick fix course or any alternative, that will cover the ''All Important'' and required element of any trade, .....Experience!!

A perfect example was by an OP just a few day's ago, that was so full of confidence based on his 5 week course, ...You just knew he was going to take anything on, come what may and by any means . These are the real dangerous people, that the industry can well do without!!!

 

[ian.settle1]

so that's put the dampers on my 5 week brain surgery course, then.

And mine as I wanted to do heart and lung transplants

 

[flukey]

I can understand where they're coming from - Electrical Trainee is sold the solution to all their problems for £8k or so, is told what they want to hear by the salesmen at the training centre during the run-up to and throughout the course, finishes the course, buys a new van, sets up a business, puts an advert in the yellow pages, gets the first call, goes to the customer's house all bright eyed and bushy tailed: "my lights aren't working". Electrical Trainee gets his shiny new tester out of the box, plugs it in, presses a few buttons... "Ummmm..."
New thread on the forum, something along the lines of "I wasn't concentrating on the testing day, which button do I press on the fault code reader to tell me if the customer needs a rewire?"

Electrical Trainee is then abruptly brought to earth with 'solutions' such as "go to college" which is a stark contrast to the weeks of being sucked up to by the training salesmen - nobody likes to have their dreams shattered by being told they've just been conned out of their life savings, which could have been saved by asking on the forum beforehand.

my point entirely, aske the questions beforehand

 

[Richard Burns]

And mine as I wanted to do heart and lung transplants

You don't want to sign up for that course, that is just plumbing, far too easy!!

 

[imago]

There's another issue with this situation IMHO which is directly attributable to the training providers. No account is taken, or allowances made for the trainee's background.

I am currently bringing my qualifications up to date with one of the training providers that advertise here and elsewhere. I have experience, and training from years ago. I have spent the majority of my working life (30 years) on the tools. I also have experience and training (including diagnostics) on mechanical and electrical (analogue and BUS). So when returning to the sharp end from a brief sojourn into the office, I decided to become self employed and bring my qualifications up to date.

Whilst on the practical sessions it's immediately apparent the difference a persons previous work background/skills/trades makes. It's no exaggeration when I say that some of the guys there had never used basic hand tools, and had no clue what a Phillips screwdriver was.

That's fine, everyone starts from the bottom at some point. However, you can't simply sign up to a University and start work on your degree if you have no other qualifications. You need to take a course which provides basic underpinning knowledge. That is completely absent from these type of trade courses.

When you complete an apprenticeship (which I did many years ago) you learn all of your practical (and most of your humility!) by working with an experienced tradesman.There is no opportunity to do this on a five day/week/month theory course. So the course is incomplete and the training inadequate if the person is starting from the beginning.

 

[richy3333]

I don't necessary disagree with you Eng54, but forum members constantly banging on about it here and it does no good to anyone with all this negativity.

I saw a 2 year old CU fitted by a 'competitor' last week. This chaps got 40 years experience 'man and boy'. The board is not to 17th Ed, heck the board wasn't even new when he fitted it as its populated with parts from 3 differant manufacturers. It was barely held onto the wall and had cover fixing screws missing. No labelling and no certificate. He certainly wasn't a Electrical Trainee. Transpires he still hasn't done his 17th update and isn't with a scheme provider etc. No one's checking his work except me when I get to rectify the faults.

So there's good and bad in all aspects of the industry?

To end on a positive note - at least some of these Electrical Trainee are asking questions on here rather than just blindly undertaking work (yes I know there are others that don't and I also appreciate they might not be of a sufficient standard to do the work they are asking about, but at least they are asking).

 

[mechelec]

Experience comes with time that is why apprenticeships were 4 or 5 years. If the industry thought it could train competant electricians in 5 weeks and send them out on their own making the company money, dont you think they would have done????
Companies spend thousands training appreticies and lose valuable time when they are at college. if it could be done in 5 weeks they would do it it is common sense. IT CANT BE DONE. industry knows it, experienced electricians know it, the part p assesors must know it but pass them anyway (money) and the poor suckers who spend thousands only to end up on here asking basic questions must quickly realise it to.
Part P has given the cowboys and chancers a way to look legitimate in a minimum amount of time. Joe public, well the few who know about part P look to these people and trust them as they are part of a scheme.
If only they knew the questions these Electrical Trainee have to ask on here it makes me shudder to think of the quality and safety of some of the work.

 

[Engineer54]

I don't necessary disagree with you Eng54, but forum members constantly banging on about it here and it does no good to anyone with all this negativity.

I saw a 2 year old CU fitted by a 'competitor' last week. This chaps got 40 years experience 'man and boy'. The board is not to 17th Ed, heck the board wasn't even new when he fitted it as its populated with parts from 3 differant manufacturers. It was barely held onto the wall and had cover fixing screws missing. No labelling and no certificate. He certainly wasn't a Electrical Trainee. Transpires he still hasn't done his 17th update and isn't with a scheme provider etc. No one's checking his work except me when I get to rectify the faults.

So there's good and bad in all aspects of the industry?

To end on a positive note - at least some of these Electrical Trainee are asking questions on here rather than just blindly undertaking work (yes I know there are others that don't and I also appreciate they might not be of a sufficient standard to do the work they are asking about, but at least they are asking).

What don't you agree with ??

 

[imago]

So there's good and bad in all aspects of the industry?

It's always been that way I'm afraid, and no amount of schemes, governing bodies, regulation or assessments wil cure the problem completely. It could be massively improved with rigorous enforcement of the regulations and standards, along with properly structured training for those new to the trades. Unfortunately everyone from the governing bodies, through training providers, right up to the government departments responsible are only interested in numbers and revenue.

 

[Knobhead]

See if you can get a local part peer to work with,just to get some experience lol

You will learn about not exporting pme,rod depths.Unusually high Zs on TT systems,earthing plastic water pipes and how to condemn fuse boards as well
After a few weeks any faults you come across,you can post them up on here

I’d rather put my fingers in a food mincer.

But having said that if I was still working I would love to have an apprentice with me. I’ve spent hours going through faults with a lad / laddet and enjoyed every minute of it. One of the most inquisitive was a girl, she wanted answers there and then!

 

[Engineer54]

I’d rather put my fingers in a food mincer.

But having said that if I was still working I would love to have an apprentice with me. I’ve spent hours going through faults with a lad / laddet and enjoyed every minute of it. One of the most inquisitive was a girl, she wanted answers there and then!

Don't they ALL!! lol!!!

 

[Specialist]

Experience comes with time that is why apprenticeships were 4 or 5 years. If the industry thought it could train competant electricians in 5 weeks and send them out on their own making the company money, dont you think they would have done????
Companies spend thousands training appreticies and lose valuable time when they are at college. if it could be done in 5 weeks they would do it it is common sense. IT CANT BE DONE. industry knows it, experienced electricians know it, the part p assesors must know it but pass them anyway (money) and the poor suckers who spend thousands only to end up on here asking basic questions must quickly realise it to.
Part P has given the cowboys and chancers a way to look legitimate in a minimum amount of time. Joe public, well the few who know about part P look to these people and trust them as they are part of a scheme.
If only they knew the questions these Electrical Trainee have to ask on here it makes me shudder to think of the quality and safety of some of the work.

:hurray: Totally agree with you, but as has been said: there are an awful lot of supposedly Skilled & Qualifed sparks out there doing Diabolical work as well. They're all Degrading the Industry & it's skills not Just the Electrical Trainee.

 

[malcolmsanford]

Imago my man that is the nail well and truly hit.

In my mind these courses are for you guys that have had training, experience in the industry but want to change tact and do another area, you have the under pinning knowledge to be able to use what you learn, interpret it and use the new skills to augment your existing, and good on you for that.

My last real course I did was my PV course, now to be honest I learnt very little, in fact nothing electrically, but did learn roofing skills and such that i never had, but because of my electrical training the electrical side was easy and it augmented my existing skills.

I don't care if your a doctor, baker shoe maker or candle stick maker, you will never ever, be electrically competent in 5 weeks, 10 weeks or however long it is, if you do not understand why things happen, why if you get this, what gets you this and if you don''t get this what do I do next, to make sure it is safe.

For Electrical Trainee course achievers read " A little knowledge is dangerous" , they are sold a dream of qualifying into an industry that basically is now in it's death throes, because governments, companies, Trade schemes et al have undersold us, they have treated the industry with contempt and now decided it is time to kill it off completely by making the public believe that anyone with 5 weeks training can be competent in it.

I'm sorry if this upsets forum members, I think my record shows i'm not an argumentative person or someone that is aloof , but I have worked for many years in this industry, I have loved my work and it's like seeing a member of my family being striped of it's dignity and being killed off slowly, by organisations that just don't give a dam.

 

[Octopus]

What is amazing is that the 5 week courses don't include any "coal face" experience at all.

At the very least C & G should add a minimum period of hands on work to be mandatory with their qualifications, and the Part P providers should insist on this too.

 

[JD6400]

I have in the past semi defended the Electrical Trainee posters that have taken a good slating for asking a question , we all need to learn somewhere , but i do still feel exactly like you Malcolm .
Perfectly said !