In defence of the short course trainee

[tidyboiler]

My grandad who was from the travelling side of the family never took a test either. In between owning the dodgems he built many of the Roman Roads in the Midlands. He used to drive right down the middle of the road like a scalextric car (in 2nd gear), and my gran used to hang her handbag on the pulled out choke cable which stayed out for the entire journey. :auto:

 

[telectrix]

he built many of the Roman Roads in the Midlands.

christ, he must 've been old then. the romans left around 200AD.

 

[Silly Sausage]

he built many of the Roman Roads in the Midlands.

christ, he must 've been old then. the romans left around 200AD.

Geordie likes them well old, makes him feel young!

 

[ipf]

he built many of the Roman Roads in the Midlands.

christ, he must 've been old then. the romans left around 200AD.

She's taking the Peee.............Romany

 

[tidyboiler]

he built many of the Roman Roads in the Midlands.

christ, he must 've been old then. the romans left around 200AD.

Oh he was. Well he looked old anyway.................... maybe I should have said he tarmacced the roads............... :28:

 

[Selfmade]

Forgive me for not having read all 17 pages. I am a 5 week wonder myself, self employed from day 1, and am constantly shocked by the standard of work I find - missing CU blanks, non enclosed terminal blocks in inaccessible place, incorrect type/size of cable, things connected to the wrong circuits, reversed polarity, earths cut off and not connected, the list goes on. DIY or other trades saving money, you might think.


But then I find an SWA installed underground by an experienced, time-served electrician, who I believe is a member of at least one self-certification scheme - and the armour isn't earthed! The same SWA carries an earth from one building to another with a separate supply (different equipotential zone anyone?). And then there was the experienced electrician, working for a largish company who, who was supposed to be assessing my work for a Building Warrant, and who had apparently never heard of 20A radial socket circuits, stating "you have to have a ring main" (that was for a one room + en-suit loft conversion).


These guys hate someone like me because I got into the industry quickly and can undercut them. But that's closed shop economics and has nothing to do with electrical safety. Unlike them, I have the humility to admit when I don't know something, even to a customer, and then go and find out!

 

[ipf]

Forgive me for not having read all 17 pages. I am a 5 week wonder myself, self employed from day 1, and am constantly shocked by the standard of work I find - missing CU blanks, non enclosed terminal blocks in inaccessible place, incorrect type/size of cable, things connected to the wrong circuits, reversed polarity, earths cut off and not connected, the list goes on. DIY or other trades saving money, you might think.


But then I find an SWA installed underground by an experienced, time-served electrician, who I believe is a member of at least one self-certification scheme - and the armour isn't earthed! The same SWA carries an earth from one building to another with a separate supply (different equipotential zone anyone?). And then there was the experienced electrician, working for a largish company who, who was supposed to be assessing my work for a Building Warrant, and who had apparently never heard of 20A radial socket circuits, stating "you have to have a ring main" (that was for a one room + en-suit loft conversion).


These guys hate someone like me because I got into the industry quickly and can undercut them. But that's closed shop economics and has nothing to do with electrical safety. Unlike them, I have the humility to admit when I don't know something, even to a customer, and then go and find out!

So....you can undercut a crap spark...and, no doubt, a very good one, within your field.
I, too, can admit when I don't know something. However, in over 40 years, I can't remember ever having to admit that to a customer.........goes to show doesn't it!

 

[NJG28]

Yes its a mess (probably a bit of an understatement) however are my patch there is a interesting cross section of:

established sparkies, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
established sparkies, not registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, doing excellent work
5 week wonders, registered for Part P, learning on the job doing good work
pub sparkies who don't give a dam
builders who don't give a dam
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
kitchen fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
kitchen fitters, not resistered for part p, doing awful work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, not resistered for part p, doing excellent work
bathroom fitters, resistered for part p, doing awful work
DIR'ers who have knowledge doing a reasonable job
DIY'ers who don't have a clue about electrics or part P doing awful work

Bottom line is that those who have had electrical training and knowledge, IMHO, are those who are following the regs in some shape or form, whilst other trades don't give a dam - and that is where we should all be venting our frustration.

tin hat on

PS - yes its a mess.

Completely agree Murdoch. Obviously knowledge IS important but attitude is also important whatever level of training & quals.
I am only a DI. Don't pretend to be anything else & keep reading & learning. I go to any training event I can : Elex Show, Elecsa days, NIC/Elecsa Live, Megger Earth Loop evening. Always something to learn.

Been on plenty jobs where seen awful work by established local spark companies. If actual sparkie doesn't give a ****e quals count for nowt.

As for builders "doing lectrics" don't get me started !

 

[Geordie Spark]

I think that's what my old man had (b. 1910), sure me mother showed me it last year or so.
The household was mortified when he got stopped for speeding about 79/80, Father's got an offence on his licence!!!!!!!

Aye, my Mum would never be caught speeding - her Mum - who was always in the back seat wouldn't have let her!

 

[Silly Sausage]

Aye, my Mum would never be caught speeding - her Mum - who was always in the back seat wouldn't have let her!

Was pretty tough to get caught speeding back in the late 60s/70s.
Used to take us a whole day to get to Glasgow or Edinburgh from Leeds.
Ireland was a 2 day trip, one way!

 

[ipf]

Was pretty tough to get caught speeding back in the late 60s/70s.
Used to take us a whole day to get to Glasgow or Edinburgh from Leeds.
Ireland was a 2 day trip, one way!

Naaah! I remember in the seventies.....they couldn't catch me in my Mexico
:waving: :bobby:

 

[NJG28]

I think i can confidently say, that not a single Electrical Trainee graduate is competent enough straight out of his course, to undertake work such as rewires, CU changes etc in someones home!! I don't care whether they have passed an assessment or not!! These guy's or girl's need to work along side seasoned qualified/experienced electricians to gain any form of competency to be able to work (and sign of there own work) on there own!!

I understand where you are coming from but generalisations aren't helpful.

I am DI. Didn't do it traditional way, several weeks all in 1 go with 1 company. Did it in bits over time with different companies. I was 49yrs old.

For my Elecsa assessment, my "first job" was moving & changing CU at MY HOME. Found loads issues & sought help in resolving some. Did job via BC & their sparky tested & signed off.

My "second job" was at MY PARENTS place.

I wouldn't want to make either property dangerous ! So my post-course attitude is far from some "know it all" or "any old how will do" I try to work with a mantra "not just does it work - but is it safe?"

I attend every training event I can; read as much as I can etc.

I don't pretend to be anything Im not.

A fair bit of my early business was from folk let down by full sparks who never kept appointments & never phoned before or after. Many have had me back to do other works.

Its fair to say that on some of my courses there were lads who had never picked up a screwdriver & showed no practical aptitude.

I had owned several houses over 20+ year & did diy of many types on them.

So all the DIs weren't starting from same point.

In my last occupation I was well respected for my 30 years experience. I tried to help the less experienced provided they showed right attitude wanting to "get it right". That came to an end. I am now at the opposite end of the spectrum & hope to continue to learn off sparks who have lots experience.

A former colleague of mine had a favourite phrase ; " do you have 20 yrs experience or 1 yrs experience - repeated 20 times !?"

Sometimes attitude is an important factor too.

My respect & regards to you. Clearly you have probably forgotten more than I will ever know.

 

[Silly Sausage]

Naaah! I remember in the seventies.....they couldn't catch me in my Mexico
:waving: :bobby:

Hahaha....90s I think, in me Sierra, got from West Ireland to Manc without being overtaken.
Brother in Law in his Elf missed the ferry!

 

[ipf]

That Mexico was special, as was the Snake Pass.......used to luuuuv that road.

Never lost my way, either...not like this thread

 

[Silly Sausage]

That Mexico was special, as was the Snake Pass.......used to luuuuv that road.

What the F is a Mexico?!
Snake, many a time, went over pillion once on a crapped out Norton, fortunately we broken down just by the Snake Inn....
hic hic hic me man got it going again.