In need of some 12v help please

[Ryan1985]

Hi there, this is my first post, so hello

I need some help as i am not getting anywere.

I have my wing mirrors that are power fold, there are x2 wires, 1x blue and 1x white, if i put 12v+ to the blue and earth on white, they fold up, 12v+ to white and earth to blue they fold up.

What i am after is some form of relay system that will switch between polarity's as i dont want to install a manual switch, is there such a unit or item that can help me with this.

Maby some thing where if i supply power to one side of the unit it will be normal, then power to the other it will switch over?

Ryan.

 

[boatnik1]

Sounds like those two wires might be both live and another wire should go to an earth point in the mirror. Have a look and see if there is a third wire or somewhere to attach a third wire. You will probably find that either blue or white to + and - to the mirror earth will either open or close the mirror so it's only the blue and white needs to go through a relay to change them over.

 

[Ryan1985]

Hi and thanks for the reply.

There is no other earth wire, there are only 2 wires that go to the motor inside the mirror, blue and white, only x2 wires.

Ryan.

 

[Steve1412]

Bit confused. Do you mean when you change polarity the wing mirrors fold out not up. You seem to have the mirrors folding up in both configs???

 

[Ryan1985]

Hi there steve:

There are x2 wires on the motor of the wing mirror, if i supply power and earth in these steeps this is what happens mate:

White=12v+
Blue=Earth
=
Mirrors will fold out

-------------------------------------------------

White=Earth
Blue=12v+
=
Mirrors will fold in

--------------------------------------------------

Ryan.

 

[Steve1412]

Ryan, not big into car stuff but a simple electrical solution for you is to obtain a double pole changeover relay. This has a pair of contacts with a common, a normally open contact and a normally closed contact. ( imagine a two way light switch)..if you take a + to one common and a - to the other common thats permanant live ( fused of course)....from the n/c contact on each pole take a pair of wires to the mirror which makes it fold up....from the n/o contact take a link to the opposite side to reverse the polarity when the realy switches over....a little to hard to explain without a drawing......the coil of the relay then needs connecting to earth and ignition switched +....with this when the ignition turns off the relay de-energises and causes mirrors to fold up....when ignition on relay energises and mirrors fold out.
Ensure you fuse permanant live to current rating of mirrors..
Have a look at link...there is a drawing of polarity changing contacts at the bottom..

Switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good look and be safe.

Forgot to mention...relay coil needs to be 12 volt and ensure current rating of relay contacts is greater than the current required for both mirrors.

 

[boatnik1]

Ha, Makes sense now, from the original post I read it as either connection caused the mirrors to fold in the same direction.
As Steve says, a fairly simple change over relay with 12v coil is all you need. Maplins is a good source.

 

[Ryan1985]

Ryan, not big into car stuff but a simple electrical solution for you is to obtain a double pole changeover relay. This has a pair of contacts with a common, a normally open contact and a normally closed contact. ( imagine a two way light switch)..if you take a + to one common and a - to the other common thats permanant live ( fused of course)....from the n/c contact on each pole take a pair of wires to the mirror which makes it fold up....from the n/o contact take a link to the opposite side to reverse the polarity when the realy switches over....a little to hard to explain without a drawing......the coil of the relay then needs connecting to earth and ignition switched +....with this when the ignition turns off the relay de-energises and causes mirrors to fold up....when ignition on relay energises and mirrors fold out.
Ensure you fuse permanant live to current rating of mirrors..
Have a look at link...there is a drawing of polarity changing contacts at the bottom..

Switch - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Good look and be safe.

Forgot to mention...relay coil needs to be 12 volt and ensure current rating of relay contacts is greater than the current required for both mirrors.

Brill job thanks for the reply Steve, no this is the part where you are going to call me some harsh names

I am ok with elec but not as good as you guys, so you might have to explane things to mine in a babys voice

I bought a ' change over relay ' ( 5 pin )

-30 = constant [positive (+)] power (usually wired directly to car battery)
-85 = coil ground (wired to the negative (-) battery terminal or any grounded metal panel in the car)
-86 = coil power (wired to the control source. could be a switch, or it could be the car's IGN or ACC circuit.)
-87 = switched [positive (+)] power output. (when the relay coil is powered, lead/pin 87 is connected to lead/pin 30)
-87a = [on 5 lead/pin relays only] this lead/pin is connected to lead/pin 30 when the coil is NOT powered.

No when its all conected all this alows me to do is switch power from pin 87 to pin 87a, this will not make the mirrors work as i still need an earth, i cant link in any earths as it would short out, so this for me wont change over the polarity, is the a diffent type of relay or circuit device that would do this for my guys?

Sorry if i am asking dumb questions, its just i am the sort of person that links to do things right lol.

Would somthig like this work for me?

RELAY 12V DOUBLE POLE - IS 12 - INTERFACE SOLUTIONS

 

[Steve1412]

Ryan,
That relay you have is only single pole so you are right in assuming you can only switch +. You need a double pole so you can switch - as well. The cpc one is correct but you need to check the current rating of your mirrors and ensure it is big enough to cope.


See if there is a wattage or current rating for the mirror and let us know.
You could use 2 of the relays you have but it will get a bit messy with the wiring.

steve.

Tyco Electronics | Relays, Switches and Indicators | Relays | Power Relays | Tyco

Something like this one should be fine for what you need.

 

[Ryan1985]

Hi Steve mate, again a big thanks for your help so far, this means a lot

The link you gave me for that relay, again i might need some help here, it only has 6 pins?

The x4 at the front look like one side can be + and - and the other side looks like - and + , the other x2 like like ones for earth, and the other for 12v constand feed, where is the switched spade? to flick it over, or have i got the lay out wrong steve.

I am not sure of the power out/in put for the wing mirrors, i know there 12v, but no info on amps or any thing, as they are a sealed BMW unit in side the wing mirror steve, is there a way i could find out by running it with a multimeter maby steve?

Ryan.

 

[Steve1412]

Ryan,
The picture is just for illustration purposes. Look at the data sheet link and there is a piccy of the DPCO with eight terminals. That one should be man enough to do your wing mirrors as its rated quite high curent wise.

Steve

 

[Ryan1985]

Brill job, could you explane what wires go to the 8 pins please.

Is there a way you could add an inline restior or relay to the wires so after it has supplyed the wire with 12v after 5 or 10 secs it will stop the power etc steve?

Or is there somewhere, where i can buy a pre built board that has a double pole change over relay with a timed control or some sort Steve?

Ryan.

 

[Steve1412]

Ryan,
Does the mirror not stop itself when it reaches fully out/in?.

I would expect this to have internal limits to stop the motor driving once it has reached its maximum. If this is the case there is no need for timer etc. If this is not the case things may get a little complicated.

 

[not clever]

use 2x 5 pin relays

http://www.electriciansforums.net/picture.php?pictureid=65&albumid=34&dl=1248772479&thumb=1

 

[Ryan1985]

Ryan,
Does the mirror not stop itself when it reaches fully out/in?.

I would expect this to have internal limits to stop the motor driving once it has reached its maximum. If this is the case there is no need for timer etc. If this is not the case things may get a little complicated.

Yes steve mate, once power is applyed and the mirror opens fully up and stops, after 1-2 sec's it click ( sound like a relay ), and the same when going up steve, so i take it they are all ready set up for this, where the wires run to the motor there is a heatshrink over somthing, could this be it?, would it hurt the ristors or what ever they are in the heat shrink if they had a constant 12v at the ristor end steve?

Heres a little drawing to give you a idear what it looks like