Industry failing us

[Jonson]

I just wanted to post a bit of a moan I suppose, i think it's ashame how electrical industry falling to peices, with all these short courses on offer to part time cowboys, what happened to 4 year apprenticeships then calling yourself a spark, no wonder wages are rubbish and standard of work is poor, calling yourself a spark when you have done your theory, do you reckon these guys can bend conduit and submit decent work. I know it's a moan but frustrating for us apprenticeship trained guys, what's other peops views on this

 

[Deleted member 9648]

Nice post Richy333...makes a lot of sense.
But how do you pass a part P?......unless your talking about the morning after eating a copy of the document....:wacko:.

 

[Dave Buchan]

Well here we are again, I think I've said this before but I'll say it again anyway "It all boils down to supply and demand!"

I invite anybody who is reading this post to scroll down the forum sponsors on the right and count how many training centres are advertising to train up average joe bloggs into a budding electrician.

There is alot of government money getting pushed into these centres to drive the unemployment numbers down, but if you're involved within the industry the knock on effect is that wages will come down also as the supply of qualified people increase.

Yes the most technically competent will always get first refusal for the right to work the only difference now being at the cost of a reduced wage packet. If they refuse the potential employer or client simply just moves down the que.

In pub terminology "You can't get a pint into a half pint glass!" it's as simple as that

 

[Engineer54]

I stand by what i say that being able to bend a bit of steel has sod all to do with electric and is a skill that can be learned very quickly.

electrical theory as taught now is what counts, understanding how electric can be put to work safely is the key factor after that it all depends on wether you can knock a nail in or how long it takes you to learn.

To the original op:
I hold the current quals and about 10 years experience,
2330 level 3
2391
2382
2377
nvq3
jib approved
Napit part p

Do i deserve to hold the title "electician" ?

I agree with the vast majority of what you say here, but conduit is still a major part of the electrical industry and has everything to do with electrics, as it's probably the most used form of electrical containment. So yes, it should still be seen as part of the the skills required by electricians. I'm not saying it makes you a better electrician, or that you have to like undertaking conduit installations, or even steer well clear of the stuff, but as an electrician you should have a level of skill in such installations.

Personally, i didn't find bending pipe easy, it took a lot of practice at the time, to become proficient. Bending pipe to augment steelwork and other fixtures in industrial installations, requires a decent level of skill at the end of the day....

 

[sbrown2]

I'm rubbish with conduit. Wanna know why?......Because I haven't used it for ages!!!! But give me half a day and the correct kit and away I go. I've only ever done one complete rewire, my own house. Rewiring a house quickly, with a family in it, I beleive, is an artform. Of which most of it is not about electrical skills.
My belief is that in any trade we need to have basic skills which are shared across not just the electrical trade ie to select tools, how to use tools safely, how to use measure things etc. Its then the theory that makes me become electrician. I think the point we miss is that there are different types of electricians and different levels ie mining electrician at craft or technician level or as has been updated in the EAS yesterday domestic electrical technician or a domestic electrical installer
The constant knocking during this thread is pointless. In my view, if a thirty year old bloke starts training to be a electricain he should already have the basic engineering knowledge that I discussed and therefore a shorter training period should be required for becoming an electrician.

 

[ezzzekiel]

but conduit is still a major part of the electrical industry and has everything to do with electrics,

but so is a marine electrican, panel wireman, linesman, maintenance spark etc etc etc so going by the bending conduit reference if your not carrying out conduit bending in any of these roles or a million other within the industry then your not a spark?

Dont get me wrong YES it is a required skill needed depending on your role, but to imply your not an electrician on this basis alone (not your reference - but to the op) is in my opinion an insult to all the men getting up and going to work everyday as electricians where there particular job does not require them to work with conduit. At least 5 years since i worked on a large installation which required tray and conduit work so i now no longer qualify?

 

[tommy76it]

Which is one of the problems with the apprenticeship vs 'all theory up front' debate, apprenticeships aren't what they used to be. The theory part of the training doesn't take anything like four years if it's done all in one hit. So much of the practical side which was learned on the job is no longer required due to changes in specs, materials, methods, tools etc etc So the truth of it is the days of the 'proper' four year apprenticeship are gone for good. That's not to say that it's the end of high standards, quality workmanship and skilled people, just that things, as always, have changed.

nonsence.

 

[tommy76it]

As previously said the Inspection, Testing, Certification and fault finding sorts the MEN (real sparks) from the BOYS
(installation sparks, conduit etc)[/QUOTE]

Installation sparks do it all m8.
Testing,certification and fault finding is all cushy easy work imo.

 

[sma_cafc]

Who rattled electricalservs cage again?
There is no need to bring the MIGHTY Charlton into the arguement.
I am a time served spark and therefore am the nuts

time for the pub and a flat out Ukrainian

 

[tommy76it]

If youve never been graded electrician by the jib then your not officially an electrician in the uk.End of story.

 

[Engineer54]

but so is a marine electrican, panel wireman, linesman, maintenance spark etc etc etc so going by the bending conduit reference if your not carrying out conduit bending in any of these roles or a million other within the industry then your not a spark?

Dont get me wrong YES it is a required skill needed depending on your role, but to imply your not an electrician on this basis alone (not your reference - but to the op) is in my opinion an insult to all the men getting up and going to work everyday as electricians where there particular job does not require them to work with conduit. At least 5 years since i worked on a large installation which required tray and conduit work so i now no longer qualify?

No, that's not what i said in my post.... What i am saying is, that whether you use conduit on a daily basis, or hardly ever use it in your particular role as an electrician, ...You should still as an electrician, have a suitable level of skill in the erection of electrical containment systems, conduit being the most commonly utilised form of containment...

Not sure if panel wireman and linesmen are classified as electricians, they are certainly part of the electrical industry. I think you'll find they follow different training and C&G paths to electricians... Though i don't know for certain??

I am NOT saying you are any less an electrician if you don't use it in your your particular type of electrical work, far from it...

 

[mayfair]

what a load a crap

If youve never been graded electrician by the jib then your not officially an electrician in the uk.End of story.

 

[Electricalserv]

If youve never been graded electrician by the jib then your not officially an electrician in the uk.End of story.

Lol. This is the exact post that rattles me. What an uneducated statment. Unfortunately me and alot of others (not JIB) are fully qualified electricians in our sector. We don't need a gold card. Our competence has been assessed by our schemes. I sign peoples work off mate.


So ramble on all you want. Continue with your gold card. I'm not interested. You tell my clients I am not an electrician and see what response you get. You will be laughed out of town.

Installation sparks do it all m8.
Testing,certification and fault finding is all cushy easy work imo.
.

Installation sparks are exactly that. Installation sparks. Contaninment installers. Wire pullers. Donkey workers. Inspectors (2391) - are the dogs of this trade. No testing qual no electrician FACT

 

[Electricalserv]

At least you spelt my last name correctly, and you have internet access to companies house.

Show me a thread where I said I was a time served spark.

Show me a thread where I stated i was an all singing spark like YOU mr 2391.

I'M going to bed now before I tell you what 99% of people here know what you are.

Because of what you are, you got banned before. You're a troll. and 99% of us hope you wither on the vine. It was so easy to spot your reemergence DoBBY because you're translucent.

You do what you do. You ain't no labourer, but you don't help yourself with your comments. 99% of us here wish you would ...off and leave us with a tidy forum.

Scum

You had the bottle to call me a labourer because I don't have NVQ3 mate. You laid your bed with me. Say what you want. I don't get on with everyone on here because I give my point to people like you are very narrow minded in this industry. Because we aren't JIB we're not sparks in your eyes.


I'm like a dog with a bone I can't give in. You are abusive constantly. How you aint been banned I don't know!

 

[alarm man]

FACT
[/B]

my course said 'electrical installation' never knew it meant i would be classed as a donkey worker..

 

[tommy76it]

Lol. This is the exact post that rattles me. What an uneducated statment. Unfortunately me and alot of others (not JIB) are fully qualified electricians in our sector. We don't need a gold card. Our competence has been assessed by our schemes. I sign peoples work off mate.


So ramble on all you want. Continue with your gold card. I'm not interested. You tell my clients I am not an electrician and see what response you get. You will be laughed out of town.



Installation sparks are exactly that. Installation sparks. Contaninment installers. Wire pullers. Donkey workers. Inspectors (2391) - are the dogs of this trade. No testing qual no electrician FACT

You talk some amount of rubish.Your an electrician in your own head.No one would employ you as an electrician if you aint got the grade card.