Industry failing us

[Jonson]

I just wanted to post a bit of a moan I suppose, i think it's ashame how electrical industry falling to peices, with all these short courses on offer to part time cowboys, what happened to 4 year apprenticeships then calling yourself a spark, no wonder wages are rubbish and standard of work is poor, calling yourself a spark when you have done your theory, do you reckon these guys can bend conduit and submit decent work. I know it's a moan but frustrating for us apprenticeship trained guys, what's other peops views on this

 

[electromonkey]

Apprenticeships, like any form of training varies with in the quality of those who are teaching and the attitude and capabilities of the individual who is being trained.

To lump everyone who has done their 4 years as an apprentice and say they are a superior quality spark to one who has sought their qualifications via alternative means is I believe, very short sighted.

I think it would be fair to say that there has been a decline in the quality of electrical work but at the same time, this can be said of all trades. Today there seems to be an emphasis on speed as opposed to quality. There is a constant flow of quick and easy tools and materials to use that the "art" of all trades seems to be lost. I live in a 120 year old Victorian house which I have recently renovated and I have been lucky enough to have bought it 12 months ago with a number of the original features still in place from ornate coving, floor tiles, floor boards, stair case, fireplaces and lots more. I wouldn't be surprised if this house is still standing in another 120 years but I can be pretty sure none of today's houses that get thrown up in months that are held together with grip fill and MDF will last half of that.

It's a sad state to be in and more so now that the generation who are skilled in all these trade are almost gone.

Sighhhhhh

 

[mickys86]

Pyro and tray were both part of the practical exercises. Also a question or two would come up in the exam on pyro: what would be the best cable to use where constant high temperatures conditions are likely to exist? (made that one up)

I had a very similar question on MI cable in one of my level 2 exams as well this yr. In fact we was taught nothing on pyro except that we use it instead of MI.

We are taught it in theory and in practical with a couple of exercises

That's a photo of my tray and mi exercise. Although I can't find the photo of the finished product.

 

[millwall ken]

As an additional note to my earlier post, I believe that the way that people are trained in school these days has also a lot to do with it. I believe that where things have started to go wrong was when modules was introduced into the C&G. Nowadays, instead of sitting an exam at the end of each year, students don't these days. They now sit exams at the end of every module. Thereby, learning for the exam as opposed to an overall knowledge. Anyone think like wise?

 

[mickys86]

U could rub a balloon on that. Smooth as a baby's bum!!

 

[millwall ken]

I had a very similar question on MI cable in one of my level 2 exams as well this yr. In fact we was taught nothing on pyro except that we use it instead of MI.

We are taught it in theory and in practical with a couple of exercises

That's a photo of my tray and mi exercise. Although I can't find the photo of the finished product.

Sorry mate, are YOU saying that THAT tray work was deemed acceptable?

 

[mickys86]

As for four yr apprenticeships. I go to college and have just completed my second yr, and it's frightening to think that a few guys are going to come out with a qualification. 90% of practical that I have learned has come from working on site.

 

[mickys86]

Sorry mate, are YOU saying that THAT tray work was deemed acceptable?

Considering that was the exercise, everything was smooth, no gaps and my measurements was spot on.

Where's the problem??

Just so ya know that the only work I did in that photo was the long tray on the right?

I'm struggling to see what's wrong

 

[sparks_114]

Mate, I bet you're right gutted. Can't understand why'd they go for pyro above metal containment. Insurance requirement maybe? No, can't see that as it would of been in the tender. Erm... Interesting one mate, maybe he just didn't like Charlton fans!!!

How did you guess I am a Charlton fan?! Mind you my 2356 assessor is also a Charlton fan! Besides, I live 5 mins walking from the ground. Anyhow, we're right in the gutters at the minute so no mention please!

 

[millwall ken]

Considering that was the exercise, everything was smooth, no gaps and my measurements was spot on.

Where's the problem??

Just so ya know that the only work I did in that photo was the long tray on the right?

I'm struggling to see what's wrong

To be honest mate, if I was your gaffer, I wouldn't deem that tray work acceptable (purely from looking at the photo - maybe its just the camera angle), right the bulge in the middle stands out. Head downwards and you've joined the bottom left hand set in two different pieces of tray - from a cost point of view this would of been expensive. Could you not have done the bottom joint in one piece? Now head up, and in my opinion you're missing a fixing (either shallow strut or directly fixed to the wall) one brick up from the top bracket.

 

[Engineer54]

The unfortunate thing about today's collage practical training, is the real lack of it, mainly due purely on money grounds. Whether as some think here, that conduit work is easy to pick up and learn. ....Maybe, maybe not, the fact is it should be a skill you that you have when your qualified, not picked up after!!! Same with trunking, tray, ladder/basket work. After all, these are the main forms of containment used in our industry, ...are they not ??? As for MICC, seems that may well be soon a specialist area of electrical work, ....crazy!!!


As for the theory side of collage training, WOW!! just read that general 3 phase, and general motor and motor control isn't part of the curriculum these days!!! So what sort of electricians are we training now?? ....Domestic only!!! ...God help our industry if this continues for any length of time, we'll be having to import well trained electricians from overseas to work in our industrial, commercial, and medical industries....

 

[vaughant]

Have to say I`ve always struggled to understand exactly what you learn in a four year installation related apprenticeship,I can only imagine its a lot to do with presentation rather than actual electrical knowledge?My 4 year apprenticeship consisted of relay/contactor control,PLC`s,drives,logic,millons of different types of switching etc,3 phase and a slab of domestic/industrial stuff and a load of other things I`ve long since forgotten.

As stated above,sadly a lot of skill these days is taken up via clever tools and idiot proof fixings etc.
Realistically,in my game with a PLC you can find 75% of the problems,the hard bit is diagnosing why it`s failed or how to mend it but often firms are just paying standby teams for this and just getting lower paid 5 week wonders to do the resets and light fitting changes etc.

I wouldn`t say electricity is a dying industry,sadly it`s a victim of its own success with very clever people continually coming up with new,more efficient ideas to solve problems that often cater to a less labour intensive world,after all,machines don`t generally take sick days when the world cup is on etc!!!

I would suggest in this day and age to specialize more,I got my job in the main due to my vast experience with control electrics,particularly S5 and S7 plc`s as IMO it can be hard for someone to stand out who may have gone down a more traditional path of installation work as it seems everyman and his dog are "electricians" these days.

 

[imago]

As an additional note to my earlier post, I believe that the way that people are trained in school these days has also a lot to do with it. I believe that where things have started to go wrong was when modules was introduced into the C&G. Nowadays, instead of sitting an exam at the end of each year, students don't these days. They now sit exams at the end of every module. Thereby, learning for the exam as opposed to an overall knowledge. Anyone think like wise?

Which is one of the problems with the apprenticeship vs 'all theory up front' debate, apprenticeships aren't what they used to be. The theory part of the training doesn't take anything like four years if it's done all in one hit. So much of the practical side which was learned on the job is no longer required due to changes in specs, materials, methods, tools etc etc So the truth of it is the days of the 'proper' four year apprenticeship are gone for good. That's not to say that it's the end of high standards, quality workmanship and skilled people, just that things, as always, have changed.

 

[UNG]

Alright I'll give you that one mate, pyro certainly ain't as forgiving as conduit or trunking. And jesus trying to straighten out a kink!!!

roller straightners make it a lot easier but I know what you mean having done it the hard way

 

[UNG]

I had a very similar question on MI cable in one of my level 2 exams as well this yr. In fact we was taught nothing on pyro except that we use it instead of MI.

So what is the difference between Pyro and MI:thinking:

 

[bozobro0]

I think the main gripe is that there is alot of time served electricians who are not working at the moment,who are trying to find work,or trying to start up on their own,only to find that a lot of the work they could be doing being done by people who have done the fast track route.I know quite a few time served plumbers who feel the same.
I dont blame anyone for trying to better themselves,and at the end of the day its the governing bodies who are to blame.