Infra Red radiators, or........

[Oldshape]

Hi all,
I am converting a house at present. All wiring has been removed, I have a clean slate where I put anything/everything.
To the property there is no (And will not be) gas. Solar panels - not allowed. Air-pumps / Ground pumps - I'd need to dig a mini Somme into English heritage land - not allowed. Oil is possible, but frankly I don't want it (The boiler would need to be outside and the manhole cover "Mushroom" will be very prominent in the garden.
So, I am left with Biomass pellet boiler or 100% Electric. (Unless you can think of some magic?)
The biomass system is appealing in a traditional sort of way. Cheap to run, but the install costs are frankly a p155-take. They know you get approx. £6,000 back on the grant, and that cost is added to their bill in my opinion.
What appeals to me about 100% electric is.....
1) all the gubbins can be in the loft (Two immersion heaters basically - 1 for my 500 litre bath and 1 for the rest of the house). The biomass boiler, although pretty (ish) is as big as an upright freezer, and the only location for it means quite a bendy flu in the loft.
2) No plumbing. Pipes will need to be buried in the 70mm of screed on my concrete floors.
3) Economy of not putting it on in rooms not occupied. Yes you can turn wet rads off, but the boiler still fires up for just 1 wet rad.
4) all wiring can be hidden, each room will have it's own room-stat as the off-on switch.

I was thinking of Economy 7 or economy 10 storage heaters. But, my only experience of these is that by 4pm, the stored heat is gone. This was years ago, they *must* have improved?
But this week my eyes were opened to Infra red rads. High wall mounted or on the ceiling.
I cannot find anything negative about these rads. Well, one post on here from 2014 from a member calling himself (A rude name). So, not a good source of info .

Have you guys got negatives? Anyone got a full house full of them?
I need real reports, not the "Frequently asked questions" of the websites selling the kit.

Oh, and if I do put all electric rads in, IR or E7/E10, they will be on their own ring main, upstairs and down. Simply because I have the space, so why not. If all 12 rads were on, that would be pulling 11kw ish, why add that onto the rest of the ring(s). The CU is a whopper with 20 possible circuits.

Thanks in advance.

 

[davesparks]

The standard ring circuit is not designed to supply fixed loads such as heaters, it is primarily designed to supply relatively large numbers of general use socket outlets cheaply and easily.
Electric heaters would ideally have dedicated circuits per heater or per small group of heaters depending on the exact installation conditions.

Infra red heaters provide a direct kind of heat that you will feel whilst you are directly in front of them, they don't heat the air or the general mass of the room. They are great outdoors for pub smoking areas and that sort of thing where you want people to feel the heat but have no hope of heating the area.
In a house you want to keep the whole house warm, with just infra red heating you will end up with a cold, damp building.

 

[Oldshape]

Well two more rings as planned then.
The other part of your answer is wrong.
The pub smoke things are Near Infra Red. The house ones are Far infra red. And do heat the objects and walls of a room. Within 3 metres.

 

[Andy5678]

a wood burning stove would be good

 

[sparks55]

If your going all electric look at Rointe or haverland rads
Fully controllable even if you want app controlled but why anyone wants to turn on their heating from the train on the way home i can't understand they have built in programmers

 

[richy3333]

Stove with back boiler and wet rads. Storage heaters are still shee-ite. 50/60 year old technology. Dimplex quantums aren't much better. Dimplex customer service in my opinion is poor based on experience. With a heating tariff you will most probably limit the number of energy providers that you can buy your electricity from.

 

[Electric Magic]

I'm going to be fitting these in every room of a top floor city centre flat next month, so, if you're not doing this immediately, PM me at the end of June and I'll give you some feedback from me and the customer. What I would say now though is that according to the manufacturer's instructions they do reach up to 95C, which would not be pleasant if you accidentally touched it, definitely worth thinking about when deciding where to locate them.

 

[The Ghost]

Underfloor heating then?

 

[sean_ork]

ASHP feeding a thermal store, wet UFH - and lots of insulation.

 

[Oldshape]

Mixed answers.... Wood stove. Same flu issues as a biomass.
Thanks, I sort of assumed storage heaters were still rubbish.
Underfloor. Could work downstairs as I've got to put 75mm of selotex down on the concrete. I could sacrifice 25 mm for ufh. Upstairs, no selotex needed on that concrete, but cost of it all is too much. My floor area is 100 sqm up, same downstairs.
Physical burns. Yes, the panels get to a surface temp of 105 ish. But it's all about the energy per sq cm. the panels are low but a kettle is high. Touch a kettle it'll burn you, touch a panel, it won't. Prolonged touch of a few seconds will however burn you. So yes, as I said, they need mounting high on the wall or ceiling. For efficiency and saving.
Timetable. It will be after June, so I will pm you.
Rointe and haverland. Will investigate.
The more I look into 100% electric, the less I am wanting a wet system.
I am also now thinking 4 smaller immersion heaters rather than two big ones. Possibly more efficient? Also, not as much structural load-spreading in the trussed roof.

 

[sean_ork]

You'll need very deep pockets (or a near passive house) if you go all electric - at least with an air source unit you'll benifit from a positive CoP

 

[Midwest]

My son used to live in a brand new 2 bedroom all electric flat, that was insulated up to the latest standards. He only used the electric radiators in his bedroom, and lounge/kitchen. He showered mostly, with the occasional bath. His fuel bill varied between summer and winter, by £75 to £127.

You would also need to consider your supply, if you are going to have 11kw of storage heaters and 4 x immersion heaters.

Until the worlds run out of fossil fuels, or it becomes financially unviable, all electric is never going to be a realistic form heating IMO.

 

[sean_ork]

The only people who advocate all electric heating systems are the manufacturer's and landlords, neither have to pay the bill.

 

[Oldshape]

Supply is not an issue. As stated in o.p.
I will be have normal rungs up n down.
Heating rings up n down.
Kitchen ring. Utility room ring.
Radial for outside sockets and possible garden lights. Radials as required for immersion heaters. Radial for shower in downstairs cloak/wetroom.
Air pump is a consideration, but the wet rads temp is considerably lower than a conventional boiler. Might consider air for the immersion heaters though. Ground pumps is a no, as stated in o.p.

 

[Midwest]

Supply is not an issue. As stated in o.p.

You have a 3 phase supply?