Inverter - Loft space or garage?

[Wiltsman]

Well, this is my first every post and I've got to come in here with full support for MalcolmSanford and Yellow Van Man on this one. I've got my ELECSA surveilance visit on Monday and armed with the crazy new horrors of Reg 314.2 it could be curtains for me!

Wish me luck everyone! Please.

 

[edexlab]

You can fit sunnyboys outside if the customers ok with it ,we've done several like this for customers who had done a lot of research and had no where else to position it ,think about access for installation/ maintenance and keep it out of the sun where possible ie north facing
wall also if they don't like the idea of a large red box on the wall you could cover it with an enclosure as long as its well ventilated .

 

[MCS Renewables]

Wiltsman .
You will have no problem with 314.2 with an Elecsa inspector .
We have only been picked up on this with ECA visits which are significantly tougher inspections.

 

[edexlab]

Why go for such big cables? I use sunny design and it telly you exactly which size cables to use on the AC and DC sides and it rarely requires more than 2.5mm.

I use SMA inverters and will happily mount them in a loft. If there is a garage available as is often the case in bungalows then I will always go for the garage. I always mount a loft inveter within reach of the loft ladder so that you don't need to climb into the loft to access safety switches. I always supply a sunny beam bluetooth display so that the customer can monitor performance.

I've read everything possible about these SANYO HIT panels and they are simply smaller than other panels! I welcome anyone pointing me towards some evidence that they generate more electricity in the same conditions as a Sharp or other mono of the same rating. More efficient sounds sexy but only relates to kWp/area ratio, not performance - please correct me if I'm wrong!

Ramjam which inverters do you fit , I'm only asking because the 4000tl has a minimum Ac cable size of 6.0mm
although you can as you say use 2.5mm for some of the smaller inverters I tend to do the same as MCS Renewables and use 6.0mm for tls and 4.0mm for the Hf's as a minimum subject to length etc and 4.0mm for Dc

Cable cross section Max. cable length
SB 3000TL-20 SB 4000TL-20 SB 5000TL-20
4.0 mm² 23.5 m not permitted not permitted
6.0 mm² 35.2 m 23.3 m 18.6 m
8.0 mm² 47 m 31.1 m 24.8 m​

10.0 mm² 58.7 m 38.8 m 31.1

 

[mac1]

Hi
I was reading one of your replies and agree with you completely about quality of install and installation of good products. I have an established electrical contracting business and have come to the conclusion that I will always advise fitting sanyo panels. But it is difficult to find the data to show the benefits. Can you let me know how you go about reassuring clients to go for sanyo rather than phono etc.
Thanks

Alastair.

 

[MCS Renewables]

Try this - SANYO :: Solar :: Product Comparison

or this - SANYO Component Europe GmbH - Sanyo Solar Photovoltaics-Europe: Home - Higher efficiency

or run a load of similar installs through your design package using same roof angle etc and see the diferences !

 

[mac1]

Hi
thank you for the information, you said you install Sanyo panels regularly on average how much more do find they produce than a cheap mono panel, 10% ??

thanks
Alastair.

 

[MCS Renewables]

On a 4kw system on similar roofs about 200 yards apart our Sanyo HIT 240w, 16 panel system at 3.84kW outperforms a Dimplex 230, 16 panel system at 3.68kW by at least 3 units every day. Both systems installed before xmas. We did the Sanyo. Some company that claims to Save Energy did the other.
Our takes up less far roof space, is better looking in black, and our inverter is wired in 6mm twin and earth cables against their 2.5mm, our inverter is in a downstairs cupboard, theirs is in the loft.

If we are generous and use the 3 unit per day extra generation :-
Thats £1.30 a day , or £470 a year or £11,862 over 25 years.
That excludes the savings on import at 3 units x 12p which is £3285 over 25 years.
plus the import costs will rise from 12p over 25 years so Sanyo system will edge further ahead.
plus the extra 3 (deemed 1.5)units at export over 25 years is another £410

Thats a swing in finances of over £15K over 25 years, to the customer, between fitting average and top range modules.
No brainer, we recommend Sanyo and so do our customers.

Customer testimonials | NGPS energy saving in Poole

 

[SolarCity]

Just like MCS R, we recommend Sanyo all the time. We have installed Sanyo more than any other panel.

It is difficult to compare systems like for like because of the many variables at different sites. However, we are finding significant differences between Sanyo systems and other systems. As a comparison, we are finding Sanyo performing the best, Suntech coming in next, with Sharp panels a significant last place. We have installed other panels but not enough of them to get a good measure. We are monitoring all our systems that we install and hope to get a bit more accurate and scientific results as we progress.

 

[Ohmyword]

Take the Sunnyboy HF range. Operating temperatures of -25C to 60C (-13F to 140F) I've worked in lofts in the height of summer with a plumber sweating joints with a blow torch all day and the loft didn't exceed them temperatures.

Some years back I was called to do some work on a property on the South coast in Cornwall. I went into the garage and lowered the loft ladder. Climbing into the loft - I was forced back down by the heat. Obviously I am talking hot! If I explain that it was impossible to breathe, it might give you a better idea. I tried a couple of times during the afternoon (with the loft open) but no good. I wonder what that temperature was and would any inverter work under those conditions?

 

[Markc]

Some years back I was called to do some work on a property on the South coast in Cornwall. I went into the garage and lowered the loft ladder. Climbing into the loft - I was forced back down by the heat. Obviously I am talking hot! If I explain that it was impossible to breathe, it might give you a better idea. I tried a couple of times during the afternoon (with the loft open) but no good. I wonder what that temperature was and would any inverter work under those conditions?

The hottest place on Earth as of 2005 is in the Lut Desert in Iran at 70.7 degrees Celsius. I will seek an alternative inverter to install there.

I stand by my OP. Temp range of a loft over 60C or 140F is going to be a hard thing to find. I agree they get hot but over 60C or 140F and theres bigger problems than the inverter IMO.

 

[TMGL]

Try this - SANYO :: Solar :: Product Comparison

or this - SANYO Component Europe GmbH - Sanyo Solar Photovoltaics-Europe: Home - Higher efficiency

or run a load of similar installs through your design package using same roof angle etc and see the diferences !

With respect, most of those Sanyo charts are marketing puff...clever charts showing yield per sqm etc which only show that they can produce more power from a smaller area...would be more interesting to see a direct kwp v kwp analysis. And the high temperature advantage shows around 2% advantage......at 50 degrees c! Also, the positive tolerance chart leaves off other panels that also have positive tolerance only. Sanyo panels are quality panels, but the business case of paying 50 ppw extra for them is not as clear cut as made out here.

 

[Graeme Harrold]

OK loft heat. UNtill I had my own panels fitted, I never thought twice about the heat. Since installing the large thermal blanket on the roof (16 PV panels mounted about 100mm from the tiles) my average loft temp has dropped to a comfy 22-25 deg C on a hot day. Basicaly the panels are limiting the solar heat transfer to the tiles, hence a now much cooler attic space.......

 

[Easters]

After 7years of doing it ill always say Garage myself to keep the Inverter running at a cooler temp as a loft can get a bit hot!!
But sum time you have no choice but the loft and I will only upgrade to 6mm DC cable after 19m away from the panels to allow for the drop in V.
Same with the AC as it depends on size of system to what AC route I will go down.
I have 5 jobs this week and only 1 Inverter is going in the loft as MCS points out the CUSTOMER can get to the DC Isolator(s) if needed and if not Sunny beam can see in real time what he is producing with out a trek into a loft.

 

[Yourmateken]

Dear all,

I’m a newbie here, who is looking to have a 2.2KW system fitted to my roof in 6 months time. (Reason got to get the ex off the mortgage)
I have had 3 visits by potential suppliers.
Lammart
Bookmysurvey and
Samson Solar Ltd
Lammart have advised inverter should be fitted into the loft, close to the Solar array as possible to stop volt drop.

Schuco Panels, any good?
Bookmysurvey, have also advised Inverter to be fitted in the loft, as per the guidance given by DTI.
Schott Panels, any good?
Samson, have advised the Inverter to be fitted close to the consumer unit, and have a longer DC run from the solar array.
Happy to install whatever panels I want.
When I asked why the other two had told me to fit the Inverter in the loft, he advised that the other companies where trying to keep the cost down, due to the longer cables need from the solar array to the inverter. Is this correct?
Run from Inverter to Consumer unit would be about 14 Meters.

What if any volt drop would there be?
I’m still waiting for quotes from the Suppliers above.
I would also like to know which are the best Panels to have, Monocrystalline, Polycrystalline, or a Hybrid Panel.
I have read Monocrtstaliine panels are better, than Polycrystalline. But Hybrid gives you more energy from the system.

Ken