is it up to the customer what protective device is in his installation?

[juice]

I've been asked to install a shower unit in a clients house and he only wants me to change the shower itself. The consumer unit has BS3036 rewireable fuses and no RCD protecting any of the circuits, including the existing shower circuit. He has already bought the new shower and only wants me to change the shower unit so costs can be kept to a minimum.

Obviously as the shower is in a bathroom it must be backed by an RCD. Can the customer choose to not have an RCD put in and I put this down as a departure from BS7671?

Personally I want to put an RCD in as this is clearly the safest option to protect against electric shock in the bathroom, but who is it that decides the level of protection to be put in on an electrical installation? Cost is always an issue and can I insist that an RCD must go in or the work can't be done or is this at the customer's discretion?

 

[Marvo]

If you've explained what the RCD does and it's importance and the customer still wants to omit it because of the cost I'd drop the customer and the job and just walk away.

I'm not from the UK so I don't know if you're allowed a 'departure' from the regs but unless the customer has a relevant electrical qualification they have no say in the circuit design process as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Adam W]

If something were to go wrong the customer could argue that of course he wanted to save money and he didn't realise the implications of not having an RCD on the shower because he's not an electrician.
You can't use that defence.

In the best case scenario do you really want the customer showing your non-compliant work to their family and friends? Do you feel confident that someone who is prepared to cut corners on their family's safety to save a couple of quid is going to pay up on time without quibbling?

 

[HandySparks]

Personally I want to put an RCD in as this is clearly the safest option to protect against electric shock in the bathroom, but who is it that decides the level of protection to be put in on an electrical installation?

The 'designer' of the proposed work, who'll be putting his name on the cert. In this case, you.

Cost is always an issue and can I insist that an RCD must go in or the work can't be done...

You can insist or walk away.

...or is this at the customer's discretion?

Only if he can find an electrician willing to do the job as the customer wants.

 

[Phil Thompson]

I'd tell the customer they need to have an RCD installed. Otherwise you are unable to do the job, as you follow the regulations to protect both you and them.

 

[Risteard]

And RE: the "Departures" box question, the simple answer is that it is prohibited to have departures which do not afford at least the same degree of safety as compliance with the Regulations. They are really intended for new innovations which could not have been included in the Regulations as they came afterwards.

So you absolutely cannot list that as a departure.

 

[bigspark17]

I think you should look at the manufacturers instructions here, if they state rcd is required then that will shut him up.'

 

[Pete999]

It's your neck on the line, you are the professional if your customer wont agree to having the work done to the correct regulations, walk away, politely tell them why you are refusing to do the work.

 

[Octopus]

If you start doing work like this, you will end up doing more of it ...... then when something goes wrong, it will be your neck!

 

[Andy78]

Another potential issue I would be looking at here despite the requirement of RCD by regulations and manufacturer is the circuit itself.
The combination of the existing cable and a BS3036 device may not be suitable for a couple of reasons. In my experience customers buying their own shower do not buy the same kW rating of shower 80% of the time, and the factor of Cf to be applied to CCC values in the current regulations for a circuit protected by a BS3036 are usually prohibitive for a shower circuit.
I.e. adding a RCD alone may not be sufficient for the circuit to be suitable for continued use.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

From what has been said in the OP, this is a replacement, not a new installation.
As such, there is no requirement to provide RCD protection.

 

[telectrix]

From what has been said in the OP, this is a replacement, not a new installation.
As such, there is no requirement to provide RCD protection.

only if :

1. the shower is the same rating as the old one.

2. manufacturers instructions do not specify a RCD to be fitted.

 

[tomspark93]

Personally I wouldn't feel comfortable doing the job without installing an rcd. I'd include it in my quote and explain the benefits and implications. It's hard to turn down work sometimes but it's your neck on the line if something went wrong.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

only if :

1. the shower is the same rating as the old one.

2. manufacturers instructions do not specify a RCD to be fitted.

The rating of equipment has no bearing on the requirement to provide RCD protection for circuits which supply equipment in a location containg a bath or shower, nor for circuits which pass through the zones of such a location.

Yes electrical equipment should be installed in accordance with manufacturer's instructions.

 

[dave274]

But you can only omit the rcd if it's a like for like swap. If it's not the same rating then it's not like for like.