Is my boiler wired right?

[rewireIT]

Just looking at my boiler wiring out of interest, and just wondering if it's wired correctly.

So perma lives, neutrals and earths in the right place, but i can't figure out the switch lives to the controller.

If i follow the circuit it seems like the earth of the 4 core is acting as some sort of live to the controller even though the perma live is already there. If i volt stick it, the earth is live at both ends at all times, the black is showing 50v amperage only sometimes and then dead others.

From the wiring diagram i would have assumed the 4 core would go to the switch as L N E and the black would act as the sole switch wire.

What am i missing?

(Ps thanks for your help - i'm trying to get more into the domestic side of stuff having grown sick of site work so this is my first foray into stuff like boilers.)

PPS the controller is not a stat, it's just on/off. Timer/temp etc is built onto the boiler.

 

[oscar21]

All you need to do is read the updates/amendments when they come out. If you can't put that bit of effort in then it's a poor show.

And how does it cost thousands of pounds every year?

Like I said, if you are only concerned with following the electrical regs then a bit of reading would probably do it, but what about all the other countless regs you may breach whilst doing it, has anyone read the entire documents on ventilation, sound, energy conservation etc when fitting a 100mm fan in a bathroom, you 3 core&E might have sleeving but what about the other gazillion regs there are whilst doing so, its a pretty futile pursuit of exactness.

 

[rewireIT]

Like I said, if you are only concerned with following the electrical regs then a bit of reading would probably do it, but what about all the other countless regs you may breach whilst doing it, has anyone read the entire documents on ventilation, sound, energy conservation etc when fitting a 100mm fan in a bathroom, you 3 core&E might have sleeving but what about the other gazillion regs there are whilst doing so, its a pretty futile pursuit of exactness.

But using the correct colours is the bare minimum basics, no?

 

[Avo Mk8]

a pretty futile pursuit of exactness.

Sounds like my career! I'm glad you didn't decide to become a dentist, surgeon, watchmaker, or accountant

 

[DPG]

Sounds like my career! I'm glad you didn't decide to become a dentist, surgeon, watchmaker, or accountant

As long as you don't murder or kill anyone it's ok

 

[timhoward]

@oscar21 it's simple. The last big amendment (AM2) cost around £80 to buy.
For the same price (£80) I could go to a trade show, meet some other sparks, visit a few stands, watch a few seminars that outline the most significant changes, and the price included a copy of the regs. So I got the book I would need anyway plus free training. And if that isn't enough I get a bacon and egg breakfast roll thrown in. The real cost was travel to the nearest roadshow (Manchester in my case) and a morning of my time.

If that is too much work there is also a FREE playlist on youtube explaining the changes:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVsHvs2SuqmqMoXZCFp_CYTgZH_Y2ywwk

The reality of life is that nothing stands still, we learn more, we become aware of regs that are confusing or being misinterpreted, our use of electricity evolves, so the rules keeping people safe have to change too.

( There's just been a very minor housekeeping update to AM2 which can be obtained free online and can be read in 5 minutes:
Updates to 18th Edition - BS7671- IET Wiring Regulations - https://tinyurl.com/ys2u4uuh )

 

[oscar21]

@oscar21 it's simple. The last big amendment (AM2) cost around £80 to buy.
For the same price (£80) I could go to a trade show, meet some other sparks, visit a few stands, watch a few seminars that outline the most significant changes, and the price included a copy of the regs. So I got the book I would need anyway plus free training. And if that isn't enough I get a bacon and egg breakfast roll thrown in. The real cost was travel to the nearest roadshow (Manchester in my case) and a morning of my time.

If that is too much work there is also a FREE playlist on youtube explaining the changes:

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLVsHvs2SuqmqMoXZCFp_CYTgZH_Y2ywwk

The reality of life is that nothing stands still, we learn more, we become aware of regs that are confusing or being misinterpreted, our use of electricity evolves, so the rules keeping people safe have to change too.

( There's just been a very minor housekeeping update to AM2 which can be obtained free online and can be read in 5 minutes:
Updates to 18th Edition - BS7671- IET Wiring Regulations - https://tinyurl.com/ys2u4uuh )

That's great but its all in a perfect world, most people have busy lives, families, they might even be doing second jobs in the evening like amazon deliveries to support an ex wife or something, who in the real world has time to sit down and watch 3 or 4 hours or some bod droning on and on, even if you did watch it I doubt much would sink in if the kids are constantly nagging you. Its much easier to find out stuff as and when like I have just done via this forum about the earth. Or alternatively you can devote your life to learning about electrical regs and then you will have all the time in the world because the wife and kids will do one.

Take today, my business partner hasn't showed up this morning, probably booze related so I'm not doing nothing, there are about 20 bin bags outside that need to go to the tip so I can carry on building my extension, why would I watch youtube when there is stuff like that to be done. (yes I'm posting on the internet but I've only popped back in for a coffee)

 

[DPG]

That's great but its all in a perfect world, most people have busy lives, families, they might even be doing second jobs in the evening like amazon deliveries to support an ex wife or something, who in the real world has time to sit down and watch 3 or 4 hours or some bod droning on and on, even if you did watch it I doubt much would sink in if the kids are constantly nagging you. Its much easier to find out stuff as and when like I have just done via this forum about the earth. Or alternatively you can devote your life to learning about electrical regs and then you will have all the time in the world because the wife and kids will do one.

Take today, my business partner hasn't showed up this morning, probably booze related so I'm not doing nothing, there are about 20 bin bags outside that need to go to the tip so I can carry on building my extension, why would I watch youtube when there is stuff like that to be done. (yes I'm posting on the internet but I've only popped back in for a coffee)

Having a business partner with drink problems or not having time due to a second job are not excuses for keeping up to date.

You don't need to devote your entire life to it, but you owe it to your customers to do a little bit of CPD every now and again to keep up to date.

 

[rewireIT]

That's great but its all in a perfect world, most people have busy lives, families, they might even be doing second jobs in the evening like amazon deliveries to support an ex wife or something, who in the real world has time to sit down and watch 3 or 4 hours or some bod droning on and on, even if you did watch it I doubt much would sink in if the kids are constantly nagging you. Its much easier to find out stuff as and when like I have just done via this forum about the earth. Or alternatively you can devote your life to learning about electrical regs and then you will have all the time in the world because the wife and kids will do one.

Take today, my business partner hasn't showed up this morning, probably booze related so I'm not doing nothing, there are about 20 bin bags outside that need to go to the tip so I can carry on building my extension, why would I watch youtube when there is stuff like that to be done. (yes I'm posting on the internet but I've only popped back in for a coffee)

So basically your M.O is 'unless someone else tells me about it i'll keep doing it however i think is right'?

Seems a bit shoddy mate, you could watch that 4 hour video over the course of 2 weeks, couple of minutes here and there.

'I don't work to current regs unless someone just so happens to offhand tell me the rules one at a time' seems like a very poor attitude to have. It would take relatively little effort to do it right.

Taken to its extremes it's like someone saying they still wire each individual light off an individual circuit because that's how we did it in the 60's and it worked then so why would i change.

 

[mainline]

If you do electrical work then it should be compliant simple.

 

[oscar21]

If you do electrical work then it should be compliant simple.

Well I have just completed a house re-wire, RCBO's, surge protection, all cables run in zones, decent sockets and switches, all properly terminated, bonding done, no tight bends on cables. As far as I'm concerned everything was done to the current regs and it is deemed so safe that it wont hurt anyone or damage their property in any way shape or form. To get injured or burn their house down it will have to be some sort of stupidity on the customers part.

Lets say in 12 months time they bring in a reg for compulsory AFDD's and I don't know about it for a couple of months so I do another re-wire to the exact same standards as the one above. Is it now unsafe, could the installation injure someone or damage their property? If the answer is yes then it must mean the first re-wire is also unsafe, but how can that be if it was classed as safe a few months before. If its now classed as dangerous then it should be mandated that every house in the country is retrofitted with these devices as soon as possible, just like the smoke alarms in Scotland, after all if it saves just one life

Somebody writing something in a book can't possibly change something from safe to unsafe, its just impossible. And if it is still safe then what does it matter, no-one else is interested apart from you if you do every little thing to the letter. I can understand when its a technical breakthrough like RCD's etc, they saved lives undoubtedly but I personally don't think any new regulation not yet dreamed up can make our electrical installations any safer than what they are today, they are just tinkering with things now for tinkerings sake.

 

[brianmoooore]

Lets say in 12 months time they bring in a reg for compulsory AFDD's and I don't know about it for a couple of months so I do another re-wire to the exact same standards as the one above. Is it now unsafe, could the installation injure someone or damage their property? If the answer is yes then it must mean the first re-wire is also unsafe, but how can that be if it was classed as safe a few months before. If its now classed as dangerous then it should be mandated that every house in the country is retrofitted with these devices as soon as possible, just like the smoke alarms in Scotland, after all if it saves just one life

If I was conducting an EICR on either property, after AFDDs (no apostrophe, BTW) had been mandated, then the lack of them would attract a C3 code, improvement recommended. I will have passed my recommendation onto the person ordering the EICR, and my responsibility will have been fulfilled.
If both these properties subsequently burnt to the ground, and an investigation found that the lack of AFDDs was to blame, you will be free of blame for the first property, but if it is found that you signed off the second property as compliant, after they were mandated, then start looking for a good lawyer.

 

[DPG]

Well I have just completed a house re-wire, RCBO's, surge protection, all cables run in zones, decent sockets and switches, all properly terminated, bonding done, no tight bends on cables. As far as I'm concerned everything was done to the current regs and it is deemed so safe that it wont hurt anyone or damage their property in any way shape or form. To get injured or burn their house down it will have to be some sort of stupidity on the customers part.

Lets say in 12 months time they bring in a reg for compulsory AFDD's and I don't know about it for a couple of months so I do another re-wire to the exact same standards as the one above. Is it now unsafe, could the installation injure someone or damage their property? If the answer is yes then it must mean the first re-wire is also unsafe, but how can that be if it was classed as safe a few months before. If its now classed as dangerous then it should be mandated that every house in the country is retrofitted with these devices as soon as possible, just like the smoke alarms in Scotland, after all if it saves just one life

Somebody writing something in a book can't possibly change something from safe to unsafe, its just impossible. And if it is still safe then what does it matter, no-one else is interested apart from you if you do every little thing to the letter. I can understand when its a technical breakthrough like RCD's etc, they saved lives undoubtedly but I personally don't think any new regulation not yet dreamed up can make our electrical installations any safer than what they are today, they are just tinkering with things now for tinkerings sake.

Luckily it's not down to whether you personally think a reg is important or not

 

[timhoward]

If the answer is yes then it must mean the first re-wire is also unsafe, but how can that be if it was classed as safe a few months before.

The book of words itself make it pretty clear that this is not the case: Page 239:

We install to the regs making reasonable effort to stay up to date.
We test and inspect against the current regs. Our EICR reports indicate whether we think it is safe. If so, "satisfactory".

 

[loz2754]

There are things we did not know before, at the time the previous installation was installed, that actually were unsafe but we didn't know it.
Just like we didn't know about mesothelioma when we were banging in perfectly safe asbestos containing materials left right and centre.
And we're not just talking about absolutes, like not leaving bare live parts for anyone to touch, but there are degrees of safety that can improve from one period to the next, both with the invention of new products, and the discovery of new dangers.
And if we don't keep up to date we could be installing something that's no longer considered safe (or the safety could be improved), even though we used to think it was.

 

[rewireIT]

As far as I'm concerned everything was done to the current regs

How do you know, if you don't keep up to date with the regs?