Is this NICIEC extractor fan installation safe?

[David Thomas]

Hi,

Quick Q from a newbie. I had a NICIEC registered electrician install an isolation switch and extractor fan in my downstairs bathroom. I’m now replacing one of the down lights and found what is a surprising mess of wires in the false ceiling, all joined together with a terminal block (centre is neutral, left and right are live).

The grey cable leads to the isolation switch and the terminal block has been installed by the electricians. They’ve twisted the earth wire onto an existing twisted arrangement.

Is this safe/correct? I found it surprising from an Australian perspective but am open to being told that this is how things are done in Britain.

If this isn’t right, what should I do before adding the downloght? Put the terminal block in a junction box? Solder then sleeve twisted earthing wires?

My wife is back in an hour and I want everything back in the ceiling then, so prompt responses appreciated!

 

[David Thomas]

Thanks all. I haven't received a certificate but he tells me that he is planning to issue it once he gets a chance to come back to resolve one outstanding issue. Safety is my priority, but getting that certificate comes pretty close.

You actually prompted me to take a look, and I can't actually find him/his company listed on the NICEIC website. Not entirely sure what that means - my builder (who referred me to him) told me he was NICEIC registered and he and his partner came in NICEIC hoodies, but I didn't do any further checks. Hopefully they are just registered under a different name.

You might be right about the connector blocks - I may have made an unfair assumption.

 

[MFS Electrical]

Thanks all. I haven't received a certificate but he tells me that he is planning to issue it once he gets a chance to come back to resolve one outstanding issue. Safety is my priority, but getting that certificate comes pretty close.

You actually prompted me to take a look, and I can't actually find him/his company listed on the NICEIC website. Not entirely sure what that means - my builder (who referred me to him) told me he was NICEIC registered and he and his partner came in NICEIC hoodies, but I didn't do any further checks. Hopefully they are just registered under a different name.

You might be right about the connector blocks - I may have made an unfair assumption.

No matter if the connectors came before the spark he should have enclosed it and done it properly because he connected into it. If it was me I would have either told you about it or fixed it had I even noticed it never mind actually connected something to it. I would be asking them for their NICEIC registration number and what their company is actually called. The NICEIC will be very interested to hear if these people are purporting to be registered if they are not. With this standard of work left I’d be checking everything else that they done as well. Is the unprotected connector block the issue that they are returning to resolve or have they left some other horrors?

 

[123]

I work in a small town, and no schemes here. Believe me, of the NICEIC Approved contractors that we have, anyone of them could have a installed a mess like that, none of them are short courses, they are just s**t.

 

[David Thomas]

Thanks; the outstanding issue is that an isolation switch does not actually isolate (not their fault - the switch is faulty I think). There are a couple more bits and pieces too - hob wasn't wired fully so is malfunctioning, one socket has the live and neutral switched around, and the extractor fans weren't connected to the ducting, just left to vent into the void space. But this is all stuff that I can fix myself if I have to, and have already pulled out the extractor fans and attached them to the ducting (I'm much less confident about terminations and junction boxes).

I have their official company name but it doesn't appear on the NICEIC website... If it emerges that they actually aren't NICEIC registered, would they still be able to issue a certificate to me? I'm conscious that some of the wiring they did is now under floorboards and carpeting, so suspect it would be difficult to get a certificate from someone else...

 

[MFS Electrical]

Thanks; the outstanding issue is that an isolation switch does not actually isolate (not their fault - the switch is faulty I think). There are a couple more bits and pieces too - hob wasn't wired fully so is malfunctioning, one socket has the live and neutral switched around, and the extractor fans weren't connected to the ducting, just left to vent into the void space. But this is all stuff that I can fix myself if I have to, and have already pulled out the extractor fans and attached them to the ducting (I'm much less confident about terminations and junction boxes).

I have their official company name but it doesn't appear on the NICEIC website... If it emerges that they actually aren't NICEIC registered, would they still be able to issue a certificate to me? I'm conscious that some of the wiring they did is now under floorboards and carpeting, so suspect it would be difficult to get a certificate from someone else...

From what you have said so far it appears that these people are purporting to be electricians never mind members of the NICEIC I’d probably be looking for a new spark to come in and check their work. You are correct though no reputable spark in their right mind would sign off someone else’s work without at the very least seeing it being installed or inspecting the entire run. No electrician would ever connect a socket up wrongly and energise it the Initial Verification (Inspection & Testing) should have all been done before the installation was put into service and this defect would have been highlighted and repaired had it been completed.
Any electrician can issue a certificate they don’t have to be registered with anyone, but you may fall foul part P trying to get it signed off if it applies or even building control if the electrical work was part of a bit of building work etc.

 

[Pete999]

Hi,

Quick Q from a newbie. I had a NICIEC registered electrician install an isolation switch and extractor fan in my downstairs bathroom. I’m now replacing one of the down lights and found what is a surprising mess of wires in the false ceiling, all joined together with a terminal block (centre is neutral, left and right are live).

The grey cable leads to the isolation switch and the terminal block has been installed by the electricians. They’ve twisted the earth wire onto an existing twisted arrangement.

Is this safe/correct? I found it surprising from an Australian perspective but am open to being told that this is how things are done in Britain.

If this isn’t right, what should I do before adding the downloght? Put the terminal block in a junction box? Solder then sleeve twisted earthing wires?

My wife is back in an hour and I want everything back in the ceiling then, so prompt responses appreciated!

View attachment 45587

View attachment 45588

View attachment 45589

Whoever carried out this bodge want outing in public, right old cowboy job,

 

[SparkyChick]

I'm going to say this again, and I'm going to keep saying it until the message gets through.

Various posts in this thread have been deleted because they provide no useful information, they just reboot the debate about the state of the industry.

Read this thread and take in what it says!

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In the staff view, everyone can come here and ask questions and can expect to be treated with a certain level of respect.

Short coursers... when people post content that suggests all ill's in our industry are our fault... ignore them or report the post to staff.

 

[David Thomas]

Thanks very much all. I'm inclined to give the electrician the benefit of the doubt for now so won't be naming/shaming:

- As you've pointed out, the white terminal block was probably there before he arrived. I've checked a couple of other light fittings in the house and it looks like they are wired the same way. It seems surprising that there are terminal blocks just lying loose in inaccessible areas, but there you go. The way the earth is connected (just twisted on with no sleeving) doesn't seem ideal to me, so I'll ask him to take another look - it may be we can squeeze some maintenance free junction boxes through the downlight hole.

- I think he may have subbed out the installation, but he seems willing (at least in principle - he seems really busy so hasn't been able to get here for the last month, but genuinely concerned that I'm happy/looked after) - to look at and address issues that I've found.

- There is (now!) a question mark as to whether he is NICEIC registered, but if he can give a certificate that will at least mean the house is saleable in the future without needing to get a full EICR. After I get that certificate, I can get a second opinion and do anything needed to bring this up to best practice.

 

[Pete999]

she will say take it up with the sparky who did the job .me try watchdog.

Or waffle her way out of the situation.

No matter if the connectors came before the spark he should have enclosed it and done it properly because he connected into it. If it was me I would have either told you about it or fixed it had I even noticed it never mind actually connected something to it. I would be asking them for their NICEIC registration number and what their company is actually called. The NICEIC will be very interested to hear if these people are purporting to be registered if they are not. With this standard of work left I’d be checking everything else that they done as well. Is the unprotected connector block the issue that they are returning to resolve or have they left some other horrors?

I agree with MFS, regardless of if the connector block was already there, and it seems so from what has been said.
It should have been made safe, done properly, and noted on the certificate that in His/Her opinion the client should have an EICR carried out on the property, judging from the evidence that was apparent during the installation of the switch.
To further butcher the installation in this way is wrong, and two wrongs don't make a right do they?

 

[Octopus]

Not commenting on the badge or competence but using choc block is sheer laziness....

But use of modern connections, not contained in an appropriate enclosure is on the rise ...

Like this...

 

[telectrix]

View attachment 45602 Not commenting on the badge or competence but using choc block is sheer laziness....

But use of modern connections, not contained in an appropriate enclosure is on the rise ...

Like this...

poor guy is probably waiting for his line products enclosures to arrive.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

Rough as a bears arse. Report him to the NIC either way, they will have him for mis using their logo if hes not registered.

 

[DPG]

I would be very worried after reading this:

...an isolation switch does not actually isolate (not their fault - the switch is faulty I think). There are a couple more bits and pieces too - hob wasn't wired fully so is malfunctioning, one socket has the live and neutral switched around, and the extractor fans weren't connected to the ducting, just left to vent into the void space.

 

[ChrisElectrical88]

I would be very worried after reading this:

...an isolation switch does not actually isolate (not their fault - the switch is faulty I think). There are a couple more bits and pieces too - hob wasn't wired fully so is malfunctioning, one socket has the live and neutral switched around, and the extractor fans weren't connected to the ducting, just left to vent into the void space.

Crossed polarity in the socket indicates no testing was taken out. Love to know how a hob wasnt wired fully

 

[David Thomas]

Chris, it’s a 7.5kw induction hob that can be wired into a two phase supply, the idea I think being that by having each half of the job on a different phase, it’s a bit nicer to the DNO. I only have a single phase meter, so it’s necessary to bridge the wiring in the terminal block
on the hob.

My wife pointed out to me that the left two burners were giving an error message. I lifted out the hob and checked the wiring and found only one of the phase inputs had been connected (the rightmost connectors in the terminal block).