Is this not legal?

[Goody]

If someone registered with NICEIC as a Domestic Installer but not registered under “Electrical Condition Inspection Report (ECIR)” scheme, in theory he should not be doing a PIR. Is this right or wrong? But the reg. stipulated that PIR should be done by a competent person. I have seen survey reports from Estate Agents that said "Condition of electrical installation should be checked and a report obtained from a NICEIC Electrical Contractor." There was nothing that said that Electrical Contractor must be registered under “Electrical Condition Inspection Report (ECIR)” scheme. I am sure this topic was discussed time & time again, please, pardon me:banghead:

Cheers!

 

[Richard Burns]

For someone to carry out a PIR (EICR) they must be competent, end of.
Some people, like estate agents, state that the person must be NICEIC registered this is only their internal paperwork and nothing to do with the law or regulations just a hang over from old paperwork. (ECA are working to ensure that NICEIC are not the only recommended scheme.)
Scam schemes do have PIR registration for just this reason but they mean nothing from a legal point of view.

 

[needasparks]

I would have said that if someone has only domestic status then the person is not assessed to carry out PIR 's so their the report is worthless, as they are only assessed on work they carry out. When they miss something on a report and it goes wrong see what happens in court when that little jem comes out.

 

[HandySparks]

I would have said that if someone has only domestic status then the person is not assessed to carry out PIR 's so their the report is worthless, as they are only assessed on work they carry out. When they miss something on a report and it goes wrong see what happens in court when that little jem comes out.

It's not a legal requirement to be registered for PIRs/EICRs. If the person is competent and, for example, has their C&G 2391, I'd say it's up to them whether they choose to pay for NIC's stamp of approval. To say that their report is worthless is assuming too much.

 

[Engineer54]

Unbelievable!! ....These scam providers have even got some of you doubting yourself and your competency. Based on what, that you haven't or not silly enough to pay big bucks, for there PIR register, something you DON'T need!! Stick to your own Stamp of Approval and keep your hard earned cash in the Tommy Tank where it belongs!!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I have recently conducted a PIR for a Landlord who wishes to rent their property to the Local Authority.
Apparently the Local Authority have stated they are only willing to accept reports from persons registered with either the NICEIC or NAPIT.
I phoned the relevant Department yesterday afternoon, and spoke to a chap who admitted that he had no idea. He said he would find out and get back to me.
He phoned a little while later and said that they would accept reports from anyone registered with a body on the Goverment's approved list.
Unfortunately, he was unable find the list, said he would get back to me.
Perhaps tomorrow?

 

[malcolmsanford]

As all the other lads have pointed out you can carry out a PIR/EICR on any installation providing you are/feel competent enough to do it.

Unfortunately unless you are registered with the NIECIC/ELECSA PIR/EICR scheme, which I still think you have to pay extra for, as you have had an assessment on this, then you can not use their official forms to do your report on, in the case of NICEIC, you can buy green forms, but they clearly state on them that they are not endorsed as such by the NICEIC scheme, which I would imagine any agency will not accept.

Bottom line as a domestic NICEIC installer you can do as many PIR/NICEIC on whatever kind of installation you want, you just can't use the NICEIC official forms, and that is the same with ELECSA.

I still believe that NAPIT do the dual single self certification/PIR/EICR for domestic installers,under the one payment, as long as you have the C&G 2391 or the NAPIT equivalent.

 

[Richard Burns]

I probably ought to point out that the competence of the inspector could be called into question and in that case you would need some level of proof that you are competent. C&G 2391 (2395) would be the currently accepted proof. PIRs EICRs require an "above average level of experience and competence" according to, I think, ESC.

 

[trev]

Just a partially formed thought at the moment but. Most of us on here are well qualified sparks with many years experience of being out there in the field practicing our trade. Most of us agree it's our quals and experience that make us competent not that we may or may not belong to a gang.
Can you imagine the uproar from chartered accountants if the government suddenly said in order to carry out personal tax work you have to prove competency by joining this other gang as well as the ACA. Or if solicitors had to join another one to do property conveyancing over the top of their law society membership.
I don't think they would put up with it.

 

[Engineer54]

All this is very strange to me!! How come the terms qualified, and electrician has so many connotations these days?? Surely, if you need certain C&G to be termed as qualified or be termed as an electrician then these C&G requirements should be mandatory for ALL electricians??

This to me just shows how the term Electrician has been devalued over the years. Seems that now you have lower class electricians that are deemed qualified to install, test and sign off there own work, ...but not qualified to test and inspect other electricians installations, or existing installations, as in PIR's!! To be able to undertake those tasks, a higher class electrician, one that has C&G 2391 is deemed qualified. Not only that, he can over rule, or let's say he's word is taken as prove over an electrician that doesn't have 2391!!! ....It just doesn't make too much sense to me at all.

 

[Rockingit]

Or, E54, to put it another way; Too many cooks and not enough broth?

Maybe the answer is staring us in the face: the preface, that is, of BS7671. You know, that long list of names and impressive letters after them that wrote it. If I get on THAT list, then I MUST be able to do everything, right? Oh, but hang on, that's just advisory, not law. Erm........

 

[Engineer54]

Or, E54, to put it another way; Too many cooks and not enough broth?

Maybe the answer is staring us in the face: the preface, that is, of BS7671. You know, that long list of names and impressive letters after them that wrote it. If I get on THAT list, then I MUST be able to do everything, right? Oh, but hang on, that's just advisory, not law. Erm........

To be totally honest with you, it wouldn't be a bad idea at all, to pass the Electrical Building Reg's (BS7671) over to the CIBS to administer and regulate. A far more professional body than what the IET has become these day's... lol!!!

 

[Rockingit]

Steady now, wars have been started by less.....

 

[GLENNSPARK]

PIR: not notifyable
Remedial work as a result of PIR: may be notifyable
Its a con boys...and their all at it!!...sinse when do you have to "prove competency" to carry out PIRs??...If you know yourself what you are looking for on a periodic then thats enough.....I dont see why i should/would pay from £250 for one of em...up to about £3-400 on top for others of them telling me i can carry out PIRs.....total nonsense......if you are asked for such services ...and feel you can carry them out in the right manner and your public indemnity is in place......then all good to go...I`m a bit sick n tired of hearing about/seeing one organisation or another just trying it on over your cash........just look at the wording given off by em for a start.....its all designed to fool the inexperienced into thinking you NEED to be part of this PIR racket......well i would say that if you arn`t experienced enough to know that PIRs aint notifyable.......shouldn`t be carrying em out then really........

 

[needasparks]

Totally agree Glenn but the problem with that is proving to the public someone is qualified to carry one out so the only way to be sure is to use someone who is registered with a body to do one.
Just having a 2391 means nothing without backing from a body and how many basic install questions have you seen from so called 2391 cert holders on here, Perhaps we should start our own body on here, there seems enough of us.