Maybe do a bit of reading about the actions of the US police, they are at the bottom of the very slippery slope you are wanting ours to start walking along - you might then see the relevancy.
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Maybe do a bit of reading about the actions of the US police, they are at the bottom of the very slippery slope you are wanting ours to start walking along - you might then see the relevancy.
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Barry White
USA police carry guns and if you watch the cops programme they are constantly getting guns pulled on them. Seems its a constitutional right in most states to own a firearm. So fight fire with fire
In the uk firearms are regulated and certainly cannot be carried in public places (except in a case) so only criminals and terrorists and diplomats have them. We already have a firearms policy and have had this in place years it just needs updating to cope with the AK45 brigade
In the uk firearms are regulated and certainly cannot be carried in public places (except in a case) so only criminals and terrorists and diplomats have them. We already have a firearms policy and have had this in place years it just needs updating to cope with the AK45 brigade
Yes I agree, you'll see constantly on Fox News
And its not just us doing exactly what ISIS are wanting us to do.
The needless interrogation of a Belgian academic is exactly what Isis wants from us | Voices | The Independent
The needless interrogation of a Belgian academic is exactly what Isis wants from us | Voices | The Independent
B
Barry White
:56::56::56::56::56:Well lets get rid of the police they are all corrupt and if they had guns would shoot us all.:56::56::56::56::56:
The place we call UK would be a bad place to live in without them. Whilst some are bad most are good and only doing there job.
I say again give them the tools they need (more armed responce)
As for fox news our BBc and media are no better all media is controlled by someone.Sensible folk read between the lines.
Time for bed
The place we call UK would be a bad place to live in without them. Whilst some are bad most are good and only doing there job.
I say again give them the tools they need (more armed responce)
As for fox news our BBc and media are no better all media is controlled by someone.Sensible folk read between the lines.
Time for bed
Interesting article, I remember when we studied the rise of Hitler in history how we were told that during social upheaval such as economic depression and/or the threat of violence there is a tendency for apparently normal people, who like to think of themselves as holding a strong grasp of morality, to be able to be manipulated via the media/propaganda to end up holding views that would have gone against their outlook not long before.
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Geordie Spark
I can't think of anthing more dangerous than a Plod with a loaded firearm.
Five of them once tried to shoot a cow that had escaped and not one of them were capable of hitting it! Then there was the Plod who was visiting a primarary school and accidentally discharged his firearm is a classroom full of children - the list goes on....
Give them nothing more dangerous than Speed Detector Guns to pose around with and a notebook, pencil and whistle. If we have to have firearms on our streets to keep us safe then give the job to the military who are a damned sight better trained than Plod will ever hope to be!
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Geordie Spark
Interesting statement.
Good job the cops in Leytonstone had something more useful than Speed Detector Guns. We do have professionally trained police firearms officers, who have strict rules of engagement and have to justify their actions of using firearms, complying with use of force Criminal Law Act, Common Law, Human Rights etc. Our military have different rules of engagement, and I doubt would want to routinely patrol our streets in peace time.
The cop who discharged his firearm in the classroom, was an idiot and would have had his firearms licence revoked, had that happened in the UK.
G
Geordie Spark
That's my point .. it DID happen here in the UK!!
Girl hurt in Nottinghamshire police gun accident - BBC News
And so did the Armed Response vehicle that crashed just along the road from where I live. It bust into flames & the ammo exploded.
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Well he's an idiot as well. Quite why the firearms unit felt the need to exhibit a firearm to school children, I don't know. Your right, questions should be asked, not least the reasons behind the visit.
An ARV is an operational unit, crashing & catching fire, will more than probably, cause the ammunition to explode. **** happens. Should they deploy without ammunition, and go back to base to get it if they need it.
An ARV is an operational unit, crashing & catching fire, will more than probably, cause the ammunition to explode. **** happens. Should they deploy without ammunition, and go back to base to get it if they need it.
Fair enough if they want to show the kids the gun, but why on earth did they take one that was loaded?!
Thanks for correcting me I have very poor spelling skills and spell check in not clever enough to work at what I'm trying to say
O
Octopus
No. What were they saying?
Probably best you watch it and form your own open minded opinion.
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Barry White
So channel 4 news has said someting you agree with so channel 4 news is legit and the others arnt? not seen the news but there website says the same as every other news site.
Try actually watching it, then form an opinion, that's what normal open minded folks will do.
If you'd actually read what I typed youd see that I've mentioned that it puts a different light on the context - no mention of me agreeing at all.
I politely pointed out to Murdoch that he's best to watch it as well if hes minded to, and form his own opinion - after all everyone's opinions are their own - have a go at forming your own.
Can't see any reasoned argument, why a police firearms unit would want to exhibit a firearm to school children at all.
Confer with Murdoch, didn't see the programme and don't see anything obvious on the web site, you'll have to spoon feed us sean.
I suppose their defence will be that they wanted footage to aid the prosecution, being able to add a bit of traffic to their utube channel is probably closer to the reality.
It's an odd world we live in.
I'll give it a few hours, see if anyone who watched it has a thought - I'll just get blamed for biased reporting
Come on Tel, that attitude happens all the time and is nothing new. Sad reflection on society, but that's homo sapiens for you, nothing to do with me someone else will sort it.
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Octopus
Nothing wrong with that. The BBC do it all the time!
Maybe, its all about balance
O
Octopus
Not sure you can use BBC, News and balance in the same sentence!
Channel 4 are any better? Never let the truth get in the way of a good story (MT)
That's a thread for the Guardian readers forum, or maybe they just chat about PLCs and 3 day electricians there as well
Perhaps for some balance, story from my area; Man stabbed to death in Abingdon Poundland store - BBC News
I wonder how many have jumped to the conclusion that this another ISIS or Syria related event ?
starve them of food as well
Quite frankly, I think they are all mad. What sane person could do such things.
We'll probably none because, unlike the Leytonstone piece of scum, that murderer didn't shout out "this is for Syria" when he stabbed the poor bloke.
Thoughts on is it time to arm most/all of the police ?
No.
If you want reasons just quote some of the many legitimate reasons which have been deemed to be nothing to do with the thread.
Does it work in other countries who isis or whoever have a gripe with ? Nope - plenty of evidence that armed ordinary police have no effect in situations where lone attackers or very small off radar groups get together and launch an attack - the police just can't cope weather it is here or anywhere else. Even countries who arm all their police - they all as far as I can see cordon off and contain while the "specialist" teams arrive. In the UK in the past that job has been SAS and or armed response units. Ordinary police can't be reliably trained up to the required skill level and then just left to it.....
What should we do - well spending money on beefing up things like intelligence officers, Beef up our SAS and have units spread around the country, Employ and train more armed response units so that each force has an on call service if deemed needed.
Other than that - cut off the supply chain - that would have much more effect than fighting them on the streets. Starve them of cash and arms. I like the idea of a reward for successful prosecution of say hate preachers or potential terror group leaders from within the community. When identified the targets could be watched super closely and real evidence and co-conspirators could be swooped up and then the reward paid....if evidence is dud - then the target need never know anything ever happened.
So yes more security - no to armed police.
No.
If you want reasons just quote some of the many legitimate reasons which have been deemed to be nothing to do with the thread.
Does it work in other countries who isis or whoever have a gripe with ? Nope - plenty of evidence that armed ordinary police have no effect in situations where lone attackers or very small off radar groups get together and launch an attack - the police just can't cope weather it is here or anywhere else. Even countries who arm all their police - they all as far as I can see cordon off and contain while the "specialist" teams arrive. In the UK in the past that job has been SAS and or armed response units. Ordinary police can't be reliably trained up to the required skill level and then just left to it.....
What should we do - well spending money on beefing up things like intelligence officers, Beef up our SAS and have units spread around the country, Employ and train more armed response units so that each force has an on call service if deemed needed.
Other than that - cut off the supply chain - that would have much more effect than fighting them on the streets. Starve them of cash and arms. I like the idea of a reward for successful prosecution of say hate preachers or potential terror group leaders from within the community. When identified the targets could be watched super closely and real evidence and co-conspirators could be swooped up and then the reward paid....if evidence is dud - then the target need never know anything ever happened.
So yes more security - no to armed police.
Y
YoungScud
Run! It's the forum police! He might be armed!
Look, I've sat and read just about every post in this thread. We have an OP irate at what he sees as Sean hijacking his original post, when in actual fact, it's that post which has hijacked the truth of the Leytonstone stabbings.
This incident had nothing to do with ISIS or Islamic (or for that matter, any other kind) of terrorism. It's a nut job, armed with a kitchen implement, who happened to shout about something he'd read in the news. His family tried to warn the authorities about him, but nothing was done. Well, we've tried arming our police. Ask the family of Jean Charles de Menezes how that worked out. At our airports, we have coppers armed with Heckler & Kock 9mm machine guns capable of firing 3,000 rounds per minute. Bet that makes you feel safe, at least until you stop and think about that rate of fire. In 2003, Blair sent tanks, yes, tanks, to Heathrow to support a security operation after intelligence (oxymoron?) suggested a terrorist threat. What were they going to do when a couple of nutters opened up with Kalashnikoves? I shudder to think.
So, as you've probably gathered, I think arming the police even further is a terrible idea, given the history of armed police, particularly the Met and Northern Ireland. Instead, and this is what we seem unable to contemplate, we should start to think about the root causes and our role in bringing some of this on ourselves. I hold no special hope that this will happen, but one can dream.
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