JIB Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (ECS) JIB told me I wasn't a spark.....?

[p11jor]

Phoned the j I b up and told them my quals

2330 level 3
2392
2391
17th edition

They told me I was a level 1 trainee.....

 

[sparks1973]

Im a Trainee as no NVQ3,ive got something to aim for then the elusive gold card,did even have a laugh with the fella at the JIB when i said an niceic approved firm made me their QSmi said surely a trainee shoudl not be checking/testing/approving others works.Silence on end of phone.I will do the nvq3 at some stage but £700 seems a rip off

well you do what you like in life dont you....if self employed you could always set the cost against tax though as it would class as `investing in the business`...theres a local plumber round here that does that a lot....use courses to ofset tax....

 

[ExArmy]

my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.

 

[sparks1973]

my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.

but does it?....if you have the 2330 L2&3...together with some other stuff.....you could always say the NVQ3 is `keeping up with things`...or whatever.....it may be a blagg...but so what....seems all and sundry that think they`v reached the holy grail (westminster) can just cheat and decieve their way round.....now i know two wrongs dont make a right but.....

 

[ExArmy]

yeah i suppose you could just put it down, chance are nobody will notice. and if they do notice whats the worst that can happen, they say you can't offset that against tax oh well

 

[sparks1973]

yeah i suppose you could just put it down, chance are nobody will notice. and if they do notice whats the worst that can happen, they say you can't offset that against tax oh well

its about the level of it....yes...

 

[highspark]

With those qualifications and a letter from a previous employer stating at least 4 years experience you will get a gold card.

You ain't got the experience then you are just that a trainee.

 

[SW1970]

my accountant told me you can't offset initial training against tax, only the cost of keeping upto date with the trade i.e new regs course, new regs books etc. and i would have thought an NVQ comes under initial training.

This is true. If you are a significant owner (a single or joint director of a ltd company, or a sole trader) training courses are not allowed as an expense if you do the training course and it is "obtaining a new skill". Something like the 17th update would most probably be accepted, but training that gives you a new skill would most probably not be accepted. Of course if you are paying for the training course of another employee who is not a significant owner in the business then that's different.

 

[dichroic]

So are you going to apply for your ECS card anyway ?
I would as its better than no card at all and it will be enough to get you onto building site jobs.
Personally i dont blame the JIB as they are just trying to uphold membership standards as an independant authority.
The real problems lie with City & Guilds whos constant tinkering and restructuring with electrical training is a shambles and the training providers are the only ones that benefit.
So get any card to get your foot in the door as it will make things alot easier and quicker to get re-graded at a later date.

Its absolutely nothing to do with City and Guilds tinkering with electrical training. Summit skills make the rules for electrical training and City and Guilds and EAL have to adjust the courses to suit the criteria.

 

[ackbarthestar]

not so. i obtained HND, Electrical Engineering in 1979. had 30 years exp.JIB classed me as trainee. bloody muppets.

Lol, I can't help agreeing with you on this one.

However, I had an electrical engineer as one of my team who was previously employed as an Electrical Artificer on board one of those boats that fly the white ensign. His theoretical and practical knowledge was/is extensive. He was advised to grab the NVQ L3 as part of his service so that he could be fully credible when dealing with the trainees.

Its not so hard. Take a few photos, keep a diary of events and cross reference it all with a contents page, which incidentally most professionals do, and submit to the relevant assessing body. The only drawback is that your 'portfolio' needs to be verified by a suitably able assessor for validity, sufficiency, range and authenticity.

 

[grantr37]

so what happens when you worked for instance at an electrical company for , lets say 4 1/2 years, then moved on and worked elsewhere for a year........then your previous employer (which a large number of them do) decides that as you are of no use to them anymore they will not give you a reference stating what you did and that you were there for over 4 years?.....are you then knackered in terms of applying for approved? I knew a spark who worked for a company for 7 years and they continually refused to sign off on him getting approved (along with a few other workers) and he was told by a little birdy that they refused to do it as they knew that he would grab a gold card in the end and leave to try and find better work/ more wages elsewhere.......I haven't spoken to him for 3 years now but I imagine he became a victim there...

 

[ackbarthestar]

A very good point..
Unfortunately you can't legislate for peoples ignorance, insecurity and stupidity when not providing support for their employees unless an individual employee took legal action on the basis of discrimination to provide suitable references.
That will open a whole can of worms for the employee.

 

[baldsparkies]

Ok I have the City and Guilds 236 part 1 and 2 followed by 2 years in the evenings completing my C which was known as the technicians grading of the time.
This was all back in the late 70s and from start to finsh took 5 years and an apprentiship to complete. In fairness after 3 years and on completion of the part 2, I was seen within the industry as a qualified electrician. I also have the 2391 in inspection and testing along with 16th and 17th edition courses and upgrades.
I currently hold 2 JIB/ECS cards. 1 gold approved electrician. And 1 platinum Electrical site manager.
Have been a JIB sparks for more years than I care to remember.
I am 60 years old next year and started as an apprentice when I was 17 years old.

NOW MY POINT.
If I allowed my JIB cards to expire and had to re apply with my current experiance and qualifications, I doubt I would qualify for the same cards I have now. NVQ 3 simply didn't exist.

Most of the criteria is for current qualifications, so a long, time serving electrician wont meet that criteria, however a young lad fresh out of college, and with basic knowledge and experiance probably will.

And that my friends is why I like others my age are saddened by the way a trade that was once respected and operated by elite members who could prove that they had earned there competance throught training, experience, and qualifications.
Has now been reduced to all kinds of money grabbing schemes, operated by people who give no real thought for training or experience. And offer these courses to any Tom Dick or Harry, that has the time and money to complete them. (And I am in no way reffering to 3, 5 year and more time spans here) No sir, weeks or maybe months at best.

I use to be proud to call myself an Electrician.
In the old days, people use to look up to you, and the trade.
Doesn't mean much nowadays cus as said everyones doing it for a quick buck.
And just like the JIB, its not about experience, its about have you done our new courses, which in turn means youve handed over the cash so ok, money talks you can have yer card.
Very very sad.

 

[SW1970]

Balds, I work in a number of different industries and disciplines. It's not just sparking, it's the same in most trades and skills. With the exception of doctor, pilot, lawyer and accountant.

 

[baldsparkies]

Balds, I work in a number of different industries and disciplines. It's not just sparking, it's the same in most trades and skills. With the exception of doctor, pilot, lawyer and accountant.

Doctor ?? No. Lawyer ?? maybe. Accountant ?? another maybe.
Commercial Airline Pilot !! Oh yes.
If I could have my time over again, thats a job I would love to do. I have put quite a few hours in on single engine light aircraft, and enjoyed every minute. If I had my time over, an airline pilot is the way I would go. What a job, love it.

 

[steelyduke]

going back to original post,i have 2360 pt`s 1+2 2380,2391 and the part "p" . sent of to jib and got the card of an ancillary worker i.e. labourer because i dont have nvq 3
im a labourer.Rang them and they said if i sent a letter from previous employer saying sun shone out my arse they would give me trainee status (£18)