Kitchen electrical work - are naked cables ok or not?

[FreshHomeOwner]

As someone doing a kitchen refurbishment project for the first time (and now having learnt the hard way why you should never leave your kitchen fitter in charge of sourcing the electrician), I was a bit surprised about the state the electrical works were left in and just figured I'd check here if this is acceptable or breaks some obvious regulations.

In short, where the old wires in the wall were all running through metal conduits, the electrician left the new ones for me to fill in. (see images) It does looks like somewhat bad practice to me, but perhaps not strictly against any regulations, and as long as I get the certificate from the NICEIC and have it verified to guard me against future inspection failures I am kind of ok with patching it up, tiling over and assuming no one will ever try to drill into the kitchen tiles without turning power off at the mains. But I just want to know there's no obvious regulations broken by not having any housing for them?

 

[Midwest]

Yeah, I wasn't too fond of having the two switches for the hob/oven in two separate cupboards when I saw that, as having them there does waste space, but seeing as it was already done after I came back from work and the cupboards drilled through I didn't request to have it changed. Didn't think too much of the safety aspect but maybe I should considering the comments here.

At least the work HAS been notified to building control and I've got a "Building Regulations Certificate of Compliance" from NICEIC by email when I called them, but it is incredibly vague, just saying "Electrical / Install one or more new circuits" in the "Description of Notifiable Work" section. Nothing about the sockets moved, new 32a feed wired externally, wiring hob/oven etc.

He and his company do NOT appear in the search on Home - http://www.electricalcompetentperson.co.uk which does raise yet another alarm bell. But he does appear in the NICEIC local contractors search, as well as in the search on www.competentperson.co.uk. Not sure of why this inconsistency is here...
QUOTE]

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Installing cooker switches in cupboards, may be acceptable in certain circumstances, i.e. when there is nowhere else suitable to mount them in proximity to the appliance it isolates. However, installing an isolator directly above an appliances is not good practise, for obvious reasons.

The description of the work carried out, on the Building Control Certificate, is I'm afraid going to be just that vague. There are only similar tick boxes on the from to be completed by the installer. What should be more precise, is the extent of the work, which should be described on the Minor Works Certificate, or your case an Electrical Installation Certificate (as the LBC have been informed of new circuits).

You describe having difficulty obtaining the certificate from your installer? Are you in dispute with them, i.e. have you paid for the work yet? Any electrical works requires some form of certificate (within reason!), and the certificate is part & parcel of the work, so having you invoice not paid is not a reason to issue a certificate. Although I have to say, it normally takes me some time to complete a certificate, and my invoice is usually paid before I've issued my cert's

If you are in dispute with your installer, and you feel the work is below standard and the installer is unwilling to rectify, you could contact the NICEIC (if indeed the installer is registered with them). NICEIC will have a mediation process

 

[hightower]

I'm interested in knowing why some feel it's bad practice to not use capping? Surely it's a case of horses for courses, but not using it doesn't necessarily mean bad practice. It's easy enough to stick capping on a wall which hasn't been finished (example breezeblock on a new build), but in a chase of an old terraced house with 107 coats of different plaster and the brick course put in by Stevie Wonder installing capping is usually a lot more trouble than it's worth.

When you want to keep chases narrow and clean, I find that clipping is a lot neater and easier - the cables aren't likely to be damaged by the plasterer in a narrow chase. Granted, you can't say that was a narrow chase in the OPs case but that wall looks like all sorts of hell - to me if you tried to install capping on that it would look like the Ultimate roller coaster at Light Water Valley.

To say not using capping is always bad practice is just wrong in my opinion though.

 

[Midwest]

I'm interested in knowing why some feel it's bad practice to not use capping? QUOTE]

You quite right, we all understand the reasoning for using channelling or capping. If it's a very narrow chase the plasterers trowel is unlikely to damage the cables. There was an electricians fable, that the plaster attacked the cable, probably true of lime plaster, but not the stuff used in last few decades. I don't for example use capping in dot & dab walls, but having watched the dry liner slapping on his adhesive, perhaps I should!

I always use capping in chases, and knowing the reasons I don't have to, but choose to do so. The only reason I can give, is that shows a pride in ones work and just taking that little bit more effort. And if the cables do get damaged by what ever means, I have a slim chase of pulling in a new cable.

I'm sure there are other examples of unnecessary practises , but in the OP's case I think the lack of capping perhaps suggests a general standard of poor workmanship, but by just looking at a few pictures, we shouldn't really speculate, which I guess is what your saying.

I would suggest the OP contacts NIC, to see if they are willing to inspect. Or perhaps contacting the installer first?

 

[telectrix]

with kitchens, i generally find that it's best to run cables diagonally, all over the place, as kevin kitchen fitter only drills his fixing holes directly above or below the sockets. this way. ot's only random that he hits your cables.:mangry:

 

[hightower]

I have a tonne of capping in the garage, and use it whenever I can. But I'm just thinking of a more recent job where I opened the chase up quite wide to accommodate the capping but it was a nightmare. In the end I opted for clips and it looked much neater than it ever would have looked with capping on it. Would hate for someone to post it on a forum and say "is this right" for it to be ripped to shreds when really there was good cause for not using capping.

I'm not saying this is the case for the OP at all. It looks a mess, but who's to say when he chased the wall the plaster was rubbish and it just fell away - I've had that happen multiple times. Makes your work look shoddy as hell, but there's more to it than what a simple picture portrays.

So yes Midwest, I'm just saying it's wise not to speculate too much.

 

[Midwest]

Arrgh the art putting capping on a handful of cables, like knitting with spaghetti.

 

[FreshHomeOwner]

I'm not saying this is the case for the OP at all. It looks a mess, but who's to say when he chased the wall the plaster was rubbish and it just fell away - I've had that happen multiple times. Makes your work look shoddy as hell, but there's more to it than what a simple picture portrays.

So yes Midwest, I'm just saying it's wise not to speculate too much.

Well, to clarify: I did say that "The big hole was my old socket panel which obstructed the kitchen install", so it's not like I 'm claiming he created all of that void just from poor drilling alone, if that is what it's come across like.

I originally posted this as I was curious to know of regulations for conduits, given that the old wiring had it everywhere and I was surprised to see he didn't bother with it at all.

Anyway, given that most people's opinion is that it is a job on-the-edge-of-regulations but not strictly invalid, I'll just leave it be and hope that no future homeowner is careless enough to drill in these areas with power on. And learn to ask the right questions about a planned install beforehand...

 

[123]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

 

[rolyberkin]

I think this all comes down to personal pride in the job, whether or not it is technically correct is irrelevant in my book, all it needed was to be fed in a bit of oval conduit in the correct zone, job done, cost about 10p! I would not be happy leaving anything similar for anyone to see who may come in after me.

 

[westward10]

I think this all comes down to personal pride in the job, whether or not it is technically correct is irrelevant in my book, all it needed was to be fed in a bit of oval conduit in the correct zone, job done, cost about 10p! I would not be happy leaving anything similar for anyone to see who may come in after me.

Couldn't agree more I always use oval conduit up to the box entry and into ceiling cavities so hopefully cables can be withdrawn if necessary. We live in a world of falling standards and fast fix solutions, the gap between new school and old school skills is huge.

 

[Risteard]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

Undoubtedly true, but we fail to consider the effect on the wall of unnecessarily deep tracks. But as you say if you did it another way you'd be the worst in the world.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

A little while back, I worked in an old hotel which had been taken over by the Local Authority and was being used as a hostel.
We had to re-wire two floors.
All the cables were in capping and I only found one run where it was not possible to replace the cables down the capping.

 

[Wilko]

At risk of copping incoming rounds ... I was raised on conduit in walls (or on em) and so that's what I do. Conduit in the wall helps if the accessory end needs a little bit more, after some clutz mullers it .

 

[Midwest]

If you used capping or just clipped into the chase in these parts (Northern Ireland) you would be thought to be a cowboy - by the builder and other trades, building control and often the customer. Generally anything chased into walls here is in conduit.

Just curious, is this in domestic properties and conduit, metal or plastic?

 

[123]

Just curious, is this in domestic properties and conduit, metal or plastic?

Domestic. Old installs from the 60's would have been in metal, but light gauge round plastic conduit generally...although sometimes oval.