Kitchen on own circuit

[uksparks]

Am I being thick or are kitchens supposed to be on their own circuit, I'm talking of a brand spanking new house.

 

[turnitonagain]

i stand to be corrected, bs1363 states 13 amps max per outlet eg. 1 double socket 13 times 2. equals 26 amps possible.

 

[TJ Anderson]

Interesting thread,specially interesting is an almost 3000 post member thinking there's a regulation that kitchens have to be on their own circuit.
Doesn't anyone have a regs book these days?
Regarding radials,I tested a school recently,wired just 6 years ago with all sockets being on 4.0mm radials. around 50% of the circuits had a Zs which considerably exceeded the max value for the OCPD. Well thought out that one!

Assuming RCD/RCBO protection. Was that three lead Zs only or did you calc Ze+R1+R2 too?

 

[tidyboiler]

[h=1]If it has tyres or testicles it's gonna give you trouble. :auto:[/h]

 

[atm84]

i stand to be corrected, bs1363 states 13 amps max per outlet eg. 1 double socket 13 times 2. equals 26 amps possible.

Thank you. There you go Davesparks

 

[atm84]

Thank you.

Being fitted with a 13A fuse doesn't prevent more than one 13A load from being connected to the adaptor!

Well if you've never heard of them being rated at 20A then it cannot possibly be true can it? How often have you heard of them being rated at 26A? I mean from a reliable source not just guessing what you think it should be.

There you go Dave

 

[Silly Sausage]

Pinched from elsewhere.
Make your own minds up.


BS1363-2:1995 requires for double socket outlets that both socket outlets have loads applied via test plugs, 1 test plug having a load of 14 amps whilst the other has a load of 6 amps, making a total load of 20 amps on the cable supplying the double socket outlet. The double socket outlet is then subjected to this loading for a minimum continuous period of 4 hours or longer until stability is reached with a maximum duration of 8 hours (stability being taken as less than 1 degC rise within 1 h). The test is passed if neither the terminals / terminations, nor the accessible external surface, increase in temperature by more than 52 degC.




All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-outlet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

MK recommend that users of their sockets consult professional design Engineers when designing installations to avoid the possibility of heat and mechanical stress to components and installations caused by overloading of MK socket-outlets.

 

[Leesparkykent]

Pinched from elsewhere.
Make your own minds up.


BS1363-2:1995 requires for double socket outlets that both socket outlets have loads applied via test plugs, 1 test plug having a load of 14 amps whilst the other has a load of 6 amps, making a total load of 20 amps on the cable supplying the double socket outlet. The double socket outlet is then subjected to this loading for a minimum continuous period of 4 hours or longer until stability is reached with a maximum duration of 8 hours (stability being taken as less than 1 degC rise within 1 h). The test is passed if neither the terminals / terminations, nor the accessible external surface, increase in temperature by more than 52 degC.




All MK socket-outlets are manufactured to comply with BS1363 part 2: 1995 and are rated at 13A per unit. Double socket-outlets have been manufactured and tested to exceed this rating by margin that allows electrical safety and reduces the risk of heat and mechanical damage to components due to overloading. It should be noted that BS1363 part 2: 1995 does not allow double sockets to operate at twice the permissible maximum loading and it should be remembered that double socket-outlets are not manufactured to be able to withstand a 26A load for sustained periods of time.

Research by ourselves and third party organisations has shown that all MK double sockets can safely withstand a continuous load of 19.5A for an indefinite period. Increasing the load slightly will begin to cause heat and mechanical stresses on the components in a relatively short period. Testing showed that a load of 22.3A was sufficient to cause heat stress that would cause a browning of the faceplates and sufficient heat to cause insulation damage to cable cores. A load of 24A for 43 hours was sufficient to cause significant heat damage to the material in which the socket-outlet was situated and within 75 hours sufficient to cause significant damage that would lead to the very real potential of fire.

MK recommend that users of their sockets consult professional design Engineers when designing installations to avoid the possibility of heat and mechanical stress to components and installations caused by overloading of MK socket-outlets.

Snap.... I just found the same thing from MK and was about to post it lol.

 

[Silly Sausage]

I thought you Southerners were sharp!

Trouble is, it's BS1363-5:2008 now. Hell knows what they've changed.

 

[SPARTYKUS]

Probably changed colour of book and index

 

[Risteard]

A BS1363 twin socket is rated for 20A, the standard compliance test is a 13A load in one socket and a 7A load in the other.

Is it not a slight overload of 14A on one side and 6A on the other?

 

[davesparks]

Is it not a slight overload of 14A on one side and 6A on the other?

Yes looking at the other post above it is indeed 14 and 6, I was pretty near the mark though

 

[davesparks]

So why would manufacturer's produce sockets that are only rated at 20 amps then?

I have a MK rep coming in next week. I'll see what they have to say.

MK sockets are rated at 26A and they made a big thing of it a few years ago in some sort of advertising jobby. It's where I first learned of the standard 1363 compliance test being 20A not 26A.

Manufacturers will produce sockets to the minimum standard required because it is cheaper.

 

[davesparks]

You are contradicting yourself now. A double socket could only ever have a max of 26 amps connected to it ie 2 x 13 amp plug (regardless whether its a 3 way adapter, as they are fitted with 13amp fuses).

Its still more than the so called 20amps that you claim they are rated at.

No I'm not. A double socket can have as much load as you like connected to it with the right adaptors.
What happens when it is turned on will depend on how much load has been connected.
If it has say a 13A load on one side and a 17A load on the other (via a 4way) then a total current of 30A will flow. If the circuit is protected by a 20A mcb then that may operate after 1/2hour or so if the load stays constant. If it's protected by a 32A mcb then it will probably be the fuse in the plug of the 4way which goes first, but the time it takes will be in the order of hours.

They way you are talking you seem to be under the impression that a 13A fuse will magically restrict the load or operate the instant a load goes above 13A! I can assure you this is not the case, and anyone else who has dealt with caterers at outdoor events will back me up I'm sure. 2x 3kw tea urns will work on a 13A fuse for long enough that the fuse will get hot enough to melt the fuseholder before the fuse operates.

 

[Knobhead]

So why would manufacturer's produce sockets that are only rated at 20 amps then?

I have a MK rep coming in next week. I'll see what they have to say.

1: Presumably, it's what BS1363 states.
2: He'll just say they're manufactured to BS1363, and how many can I sell you!

atm stop acting like a fool. Read the standard before you dig a bigger hole for yourself!

 

[atm84]

I'm just saying that I don't see a problem with a 2.5mm cable serving One double socket, being spurred off a ring main. It's totally acceptable by BS7671.

It's the same as the flex on a pendent light fitting being fitted with 0.75mm flex when the rest of the circuit is wired in 1.5mm and protected by a 10amp mcb.