L & N at the switch

[Engineer54]

All fine and dandy until the loop in method is used at a light with a fitting not designed to take 3 cables and you are in the same boat.
Sorry E'.....whilst historically there is much we haven't agreed on I generally take on board your points, weigh them up against my own and sometimes my thinking changes.
But on this you're wrong**edited**.

Sorry but i don't think i'm wrong at all!!

If you have a typical ceiling 3 plate system and a fitting that can't accommodate the connections, then simply do what has been done for bloody years, only now is even easier, use a line or wago joint box!! Let's face it, you'll be using something similar for any recessed lighting you'll be installing anyway!!

Nope, ...no-one will ever convince me that 3 plating at switch points as a general rule is a good thing, because it bloody well isn't!!

 

[davesparks]

Sorry but i don't think i'm wrong at all!!

If you have a typical ceiling 3 plate system and a fitting that can't accommodate the connections, then simply do what has been done for bloody years, only now is even easier, use a line or wago joint box!! Let's face it, you'll be using something similar for any recessed lighting you'll be installing anyway!!

Nope, ...no-one will ever convince me that 3 plating at switch points as a general rule is a good thing, because it bloody well isn't!!

As a general rule? I agree with you. But it is acceptable if it suits the installation for whatever reason (2A sockets, external lights, undercabinet lights are a few possibilities I can think of). I don't agree on using a joint box being a soloution as most of the fittings which don't have space for three cables also aren't big enough to cover the hole needed to push the joint box in to the ceiling. Although the fittings I normally have this problem with are really old fittings rather than modern ones, the mini chandelier type with just a fancy hook-plate for a ceiling fitting spring to mind.

But then I also believe that anyone calling themselves an electrician should be able to design a domestic installation without having to go online and get the help of a bunch of people they have never met.

 

[Engineer54]

As a general rule? I agree with you. But it is acceptable if it suits the installation for whatever reason (2A sockets, external lights, undercabinet lights are a few possibilities I can think of). I don't agree on using a joint box being a soloution as most of the fittings which don't have space for three cables also aren't big enough to cover the hole needed to push the joint box in to the ceiling. Although the fittings I normally have this problem with are really old fittings rather than modern ones, the mini chandelier type with just a fancy hook-plate for a ceiling fitting spring to mind.

But then I also believe that anyone calling themselves an electrician should be able to design a domestic installation without having to go online and get the help of a bunch of people they have never met.

There has always been such light fittings old and new, (but i'll differ and say more so new) how did electricians get over it then?? Where there is a will there is always a way.
I'm buggered if i'd design a complete lighting circuit around one bloody light fitting, that's for sure.

Said before if you need a neutral at the switch position to supply an outside light etc, then make the switch drop a 3 core, absolutely no need to loop the whole circuit through all the switches to supply any of those examples you gave...

 

[Deleted member 9648]

There has always been such light fittings old and new, (but i'll differ and say more so new) how did electricians get over it then?? Where there is a will there is always a way.
I'm buggered if i'd design a complete lighting circuit around one bloody light fitting, that's for sure.

Said before if you need a neutral at the switch position to supply an outside light etc, then make the switch drop a 3 core, absolutely no need to loop the whole circuit through all the switches to supply any of those examples you gave...

They stuffed a bunch of connectors or screwits up into the ceiling!

 

[Octopus]

Rather a neutral at a switch than concealed JB's above the ceiling - two jobs this week fxcked due to this so far (rooms above - 1 being a bathroom/wet room so that floors not coming up!)

 

[R G]

I would rather fault find at a light switch than start pulling up floor boards to find joint boxes , yesterday I ha to find a JB inside a flat roof for down lights , now there's some holes to plaster up, Lol

 

[Leesparkykent]

IMO I can't see a genuine reason why any one would be that against it if the situation calls for it.
When wiring down lighters on new builds etc I will 9 X out of 10 feed the switch, I would rather have 3 cables at the switch than 4 at the 1st down light!

 

[Engineer54]

I would rather fault find at a light switch than start pulling up floor boards to find joint boxes , yesterday I ha to find a JB inside a flat roof for down lights , now there's some holes to plaster up, Lol

So there wouldn't be any JB's in that flat roof where several recessed fittings have been installed with looping through the switch?? Pull the other leg it's got bells on!! What you had there is just a badly designed and installed installation by the original electrician...

Oh and during that easy fault finding at the switch, keep your fingers crossed that the fault isn't on any of the drops to those switches, especially when you have considerably more than the minimum of 3 cables....

 

[Octopus]

So there wouldn't be any JB's in that flat roof where several recessed fittings have been installed with looping through the switch?? Pull the other leg it's got bells on!! What you had there is just a badly designed and installed installation by the original electrician...

Oh and during that easy fault finding at the switch, keep your fingers crossed that the fault isn't on any of the drops to those switches, especially when you have considerably more than the minimum of 3 cables....

It strikes me that many years in China has left you behind with how things are done in the UK.....

 

[Engineer54]

IMO I can't see a genuine reason why any one would be that against it if the situation calls for it.
When wiring down lighters on new builds etc I will 9 X out of 10 feed the switch, I would rather have 3 cables at the switch than 4 at the 1st down light!

What are you saying here, that you would loop through the all the circuits switches in order to make one room easier to wire??

Be a different story if there were conciderably more cables at the switch than just 3 you're quoting here. Whats so terrible about terminating 4 cables at the first down light then??

I really don't get this ''Easy'' thing for switch looping, ...considerably more work is involved as well as around half as much addition cable required, and for all that time and effort, you end up with a ****pot lighting circuit, ....So i guess it all makes sense then...lol!!

 

[Engineer54]

It strikes me that many years in China has left you behind with how things are done in the UK.....

Murdoch, if that's what you consider ''progress'' then you're more than welcome to it.

It doesn't matter where i've spent the last few years working, you'd not change my mind on 3 plating at the switch positions...

 

[Engineer54]

They stuffed a bunch of connectors or screwits up into the ceiling!

Is that what you did too??

 

[Charlie_]

I prefer the 3 plate system.
This avoids unnecessary congestion at switches and keeps circuit lengths to a minimum.
I see the merits of LN at the switch for certain jobs such as a small extension or for outside lights and the likes.

 

[Charlie_]

Also wiring a 3 plate system is a hell of a lot quicker!

 

[Engineer54]

I prefer the 3 plate system.
This avoids unnecessary congestion at switches and keeps circuit lengths to a minimum.
I see the merits of LN at the switch for certain jobs such as a small extension or for outside lights and the likes.

Which is easily achievable without looping at the switches...