Labour defeated.....

[accordfire]

Agree to the above. One thing that I think would help is that all schools finish at the age of 18. Normal schooling up to 16 then a directional learning just like college up until your 18? Then from 18 - 21 a formal college system and then university. Yes this would mean more costs from the tax payer but how much would be saved by not having to pay benefits to single teenage mums and 17 year old smack heads? A bit strong I know but I believe it would be better in the long run. Another option is some form of national service, military or academic giving some form of direction to a young persons life.

That's a big part of what I was aiming at - the lack of direction our kids leave school with, and the whole culture toward it being OK to be a single mother, in a council house, and no hope of ever achieving anything, other than spending just long enough with some jumped up little tearaway long enough to get pregnant again.

Sadly, one of the few ways we're ever going to get the culture of family back is by teaching it to youngsters. Community also needs to be taught now, sadly, as it's all but died in many parts of the UK. It would be nice to see concessions given to restoring high streets with proper shops - like butchers, greengrocers, and proper iron mongers. I'd be happy to pay a bit more for proper meat instead of that junk they sell (and can't even label right) in Tesco.

My idea for a national service was more along the lines of a "community" service - essentially making kids take responsibility for their communities, putting single parents in dormitory type places under a proper Matron type, allowing these mothers the chance to learn to do it properly, with support, and a chance to work part time to pay their way.

Lads in this age group, meanwhile should be worked hard, for a wage, sufficient to give them a sense of discipline, and also with education on working for a living and getting on with others, instead of what they do now.

I am in favour of some sort of national service though.

 

[Phil]

we used to do community service at school on a friday afternoon. (not through the courts )

we would be given an elderly couple of widow to look after all for the greater good of the schools name and all gratis. i loved doing it. got me out in the real world and helping someone at the same time. the people we helped were so grateful. i did gardens shopping and even a bit of decorating. mind you i don`t have any alive but i am not sure i would want 15/16 year old lads from a high school in my grans house with a set of keys. mind the silly risk assessment and blame claim culture probably would not let it work at the mo

 

[Paul.M]

If the above (by Bill) was in place when I left school I would be a better person now, simple as that. I was asked at the age of 15 like most of us "what do you want to be when you grow up? Here are 3 options for you! WHAT, I'm 15. I.don't know what I want to eat at dinner time never mind a carerer for the rest of my life. I gave it some time, worked in many a different job, got a load of different experiences and u went back to a path that I loved, electrics. If I could go back to being 16 again I would be banging on the door if my local college to become a sparky and getting back to the OP you can charge me the full amount of my education and only take a small amount when I earn over a certain amount. But would I get funding because I'm from a poor working class family with no means if repaying if I fail my exams? That will be a question for future students.

 

[k.k]

If the above (by Bill) was in place when I left school I would be a better person now, simple as that. I was asked at the age of 15 like most of us "what do you want to be when you grow up? Here are 3 options for you! WHAT, I'm 15. I.don't know what I want to eat at dinner time never mind a carerer for the rest of my life. I gave it some time, worked in many a different job, got a load of different experiences and u went back to a path that I loved, electrics. If I could go back to being 16 again I would be banging on the door if my local college to become a sparky and getting back to the OP you can charge me the full amount of my education and only take a small amount when I earn over a certain amount. But would I get funding because I'm from a poor working class family with no means if repaying if I fail my exams? That will be a question for future students.

yes, i feel the same. when i was at school there was NO option to be or become a sparks, it was WHO YOU KNOW and it probably always will be. If true...... then a shame...no..?

 

[accordfire]

yes, i feel the same. when i was at school there was NO option to be or become a sparks, it was WHO YOU KNOW and it probably always will be. If true...... then a shame...no..?

Yup - it was who I knew too - god alone knows what I would have been doing were it not for that.

Perhaps I should go and punch him out after all......lol!

You know, if I wasn't doing what I am these days, I'd have no idea at all what to do. Too far in to change now I think.

 

[alarm man]

its the tory way,keep the working class down and make everything out of reach,the laughable thing about that knacka pulling on the flag on the cenopath he is from a very very wealthy family,and the ones ive seen up here protesting are the ones with the posh accents and live in the best parts of the city on daddy's money,not a local accent among them,uni should be means tested and if you can contribute to the costs then you do,if you cant you dont and give those who cant afford it for whatever reason a chance to better themselves..

 

[IQ Electrical]

its the tory way,keep the working class down and make everything out of reach

Like owning shares or buying your own home?
The new system will be far closer to 'means testing' than the previous!

 

[Scott F]

Going to uni is about bettering oneself . The rise in fees will likely only put off the working classes for the majority of us that means OUR FAMILIES OUR CHILDREN not doing as well,as they might

 

[UNG]

The rise in fees may see the demise of some of the stupid and worthless degree courses currently on offer

May be it's time to bring back the tried and tested apprenticeships and work your way up the ladder instead of producing degree level managers who ain't got a clue what's happening on the ground floor

This country is on it's **** because we have managers who have not got dirty on the way up and just try to score points off each other in meetings. I think the Alan Sugar programme represents everything that is wrong with the way business is run these days and those competing for the job wouldn't make a good apprentice on the tools as there head is way to far up somewhere

Regardless of party they all seem to work on the principle if it ain't broke it will be after we have got hold of it

 

[Scott F]

This country is on it's **** because we have managers who have not got dirty on the way up and just try to score points off each other in meetings.

AGREED

 

[UNG]

Going to uni is about bettering oneself .

I have often been told by people who have degrees totally unrelated to their career choice tha going to uni proves you have an ability to learn (my cousin has a degree in bio chemistry and works as a insolvency accountant)

I don't feel I missed out going to uni and I am comfortable with the professional choices I taken over the years. I am considering doing a degree just for the piece of paper to stop some people looking down their nose at me, the difference is when they have a problem that needs fixing they call me to sort it as their knowledge falls short of the mark

 

[accordfire]

I have often been told by people who have degrees totally unrelated to their career choice tha going to uni proves you have an ability to learn (my cousin has a degree in bio chemistry and works as a insolvency accountant)

I don't feel I missed out going to uni and I am comfortable with the professional choices I taken over the years. I am considering doing a degree just for the piece of paper to stop some people looking down their nose at me, the difference is when they have a problem that needs fixing they call me to sort it as their knowledge falls short of the mark

Sounds like typical uni justification. The fact is any assessment will prove you can learn. That's really the whole basis of NVQ type assessments.

My brother is a bit like that - he's studied the weirdest things over the years, ended up with a degree in economics, and I can't see how, for the life of me, that's useful to what he does for a living - effectively being a sales director in a builder's merchants - which job he had prior to the degree.

Then again, no real idea why I worked for my BA - other than I figured Business Studies with Accounting might help me run my business - again, no - common sense really does that, mostly, when I can find any.

 

[UNG]

That's really the whole basis of NVQ type assessments.

NVQ's annoy me as much as the guy with the wrong ladder, I always look at them with the alternative meaning

Then again, no real idea why I worked for my BA - other than I figured Business Studies with Accounting might help me run my business - again, no - common sense really does that, mostly, when I can find any.

Pity there is no degree awarded for common sense may be it's a new course they could run at these uni's

 

[accordfire]

NVQ's annoy me as much as the guy with the wrong ladder, I always look at them with the alternative meaning



Pity there is no degree awarded for common sense may be it's a new course they could run at these uni's

Yup - had my rant about NVQs the other day - to my mind they are at best assessments, and not qualifications. Not a fan of the way they've taken over what most of us already had, as apprentices one way and another, and glorified it into some kind of mecca.

IMO, theory and application are two distinct areas, and any good electrician needs BOTH, in balance. It seems a simple matter to me that there is a world of difference between the guy who can run in cables and install devices according to a plan, and the guy who understands WHY he is doing that, and what to do if theory and application disagree. We all used to be able to do that, but these days, a lad will simply stop, pick up the phone, and comment that "you can't do that - can't get that cable through that wall - what do YOU want me to do about that?"

Electricity, like fire, like many other skilled trades, IMHO, should never, ever, ever, have gone down the dumbing down route.

And how true your words - we need a uni course in common sense, and they produce a new course in Lady sodding Gaga........I firmly believe the lunatics are now totally in charge of the assylum, after all. Pink Floyd was right. Lol.

 

[alarm man]

The new system will be far closer to 'means testing' than the previous!

as in if you can pay 'means' you go,if you cant 'means' you dont..