Landlord's EICR query

[bennie]

There are people on here who have been in the trade way longer than I , but I have noticed over my time that pretty much no 2 sparks do a PIR / EICR the same.
I reckon we could send 5 sparks to the same old house and we would get 5 different lot of findings and 5 very different lots of recommendations / Codes

Not sure any would give a board with an RCD main switch a C2, unless it was faulty.

 

[frontier219]

Thanks for the advice all, have decided the board will warrant a C3 and have sent a covering email to landlord/agent informing them of the report. I have also let them know that the EICR is not a replacement for an EIC and they may still need to provide this in future. Have quoted to upgrade to RCBO/SPD but I'm not holding out much hope looking at the rest of the flat!

 

[frontier219]

This doesn’t warrant a C2

Going by your logic most consumer units I test I’d have to give a C2 as most aren’t full RCBO with SPD

With respect, I never said it would be a C2 purely based on it having a single RCD, but because it had a single RCD installed recently. I accept that I was wrong with this, and that the age of installation is irrelevant, but I still maintain it shouldn't have been installed that way.

If you C2 all RCD boards then dual RCD boards will be C2 as well , which as you say we would be C2ing a lot of fairly new builds

Not at all, my point was that a single RCD is no longer compliant. A dual RCD is still compliant so it wouldn't warrant any kind of remark at all. Not that I like fitting them anymore when RCBOs are so much better.

 

[bennie]

With respect, I never said it would be a C2 purely based on it having a single RCD, but because it had a single RCD installed recently. I accept that I was wrong with this, and that the age of installation is irrelevant, but I still maintain it shouldn't have been installed that way.

Not at all, my point was that a single RCD is no longer compliant. A dual RCD is still compliant so it wouldn't warrant any kind of remark at all. Not that I like fitting them anymore when RCBOs are so much better.

Remind me again why it's not compliant and is that a statutory reg??

 

[frontier219]

Remind me again why it's not compliant and is that a statutory reg??

BS7671 314.1 and 531.3.2

None of BS7671 is statutory but it is still what we are required to follow - are you suggesting it's compliant right now to fit a single RCD consumer unit feeding one house/flat? Happy to be proved wrong but I'm fairly sure that's not the case?

 

[bennie]

BS7671 314.1 and 531.3.2

None of BS7671 is statutory but it is still what we are required to follow - are you suggesting it's compliant right now to fit a single RCD consumer unit feeding one house/flat? Happy to be proved wrong but I'm fairly sure that's not the case?

Not sure 314.1 says not to use them or 531.3.2. Can you be more specific.

 

[bennie]

BS7671 314.1 and 531.3.2

None of BS7671 is statutory but it is still what we are required to follow - are you suggesting it's compliant right now to fit a single RCD consumer unit feeding one house/flat? Happy to be proved wrong but I'm fairly sure that's not the case?

Remember in the new edition to be aware of the words should & shall.

 

[frontier219]

Not sure 314.1 says not to use them or 531.3.2. Can you be more specific.

If you're looking for a regulation that specifically says single RCD boards are not to be used then I agree, but 314.1 clause i, "to avoid danger and minimize inconvenience in case of a fault" would rule it out in my opinion.

 

[frontier219]

Remember in the new edition to be aware of the words should & shall.

There are no should's in the regs I quoted, only shalls...

 

[bennie]

There are no should's in the regs I quoted, only shalls...

Your right on both counts but your still wrong with your classification of the fault and nowhere does it say not to use them. In the right application they're fine. Unless your going to go round the tenants property and workout the earth leakage from all their appliances but even then it would be a C3 as it's only a nuisance. In other areas a board with an RCD main switch is the right choice. On an EICR we can put notes along with our classifications which should be done in a case like this. Yes they are all shalls as in divide circuits & minimise hazards but it still leaves it open so we can choose the best protective devices for what we are installing and at the time that was the best way so it's still a C3 with advice. RCD main switches are fine if that's what's required.

 

[frontier219]

Your right on both counts but your still wrong with your classification of the fault and nowhere does it say not to use them. In the right application they're fine. Unless your going to go round the tenants property and workout the earth leakage from all their appliances but even then it would be a C3 as it's only a nuisance. In other areas a board with an RCD main switch is the right choice. On an EICR we can put notes along with our classifications which should be done in a case like this. Yes they are all shalls as in divide circuits & minimise hazards but it still leaves it open so we can choose the best protective devices for what we are installing and at the time that was the best way so it's still a C3 with advice. RCD main switches are fine if that's what's required.

I don't think you've fully read my posts. I now accept that it is a code 3, and under normal circumstances that is absolutely what I would code a single RCD board. The reason I thought this one might be considered different is because it is clearly a new board (amendment 3 compliant) and therefore was installed at a time when Split Load was required at a minimum in this kind of installation. You say 'at the time this was the best way', but in this instance it definitely wasn't.

 

[davesparks]

Not sure 314.1 says not to use them or 531.3.2. Can you be more specific.

531.3.2 says, in essence, that you shall limit the risk of unwanted tripping.

Fitting a single RCD to protect a whole installation does not limit the risk of unwanted tripping. Therfore a single RCD protecting a whole installation is not fully compliant with the current edition of BS7671.

 

[davesparks]

Unless your going to go round the tenants property and workout the earth leakage from all their appliances but even then it would be a C3 as it's only a nuisance.

Measuring earth leakage is not relevant, that is only relevant to actual unwanted tripping, we are not concerned with that, we are concerned with limiting the risk of unwanted tripping.
Regardless of what the actual earth leakage is at any one time there is always a risk of unwanted tripping due to it changing.

Yes it is a C3, but that just proves that it is not compliant!
C3 is given to items which do not comply, do not present a potential or immediate danger, but can be improved for safety.

A C3 is not given to things which comply!