Level of qualification needed to obtain licence?

[D Skelton]

I am genuinely interested to see what others thoughts are on this matter.

Hypothetically speaking, the government disbands the current scam schemes and puts out to tender a GasSafe style system for electricians. Costs are lower, standards maintained, enforcement carried out blah blah blah.... Lets just say the new system is hunky dory for arguments sake. The main difference however is that in order to practise as an electrician in the UK, you now legally have to hold an electricians licence. The word 'electrician' is also protected by statute from fraudulent and unlawful use and only useable by licence holders.

I want to know what qualifications you guys think an individual would have to posses in order to gain a licence and be legally allowed to call themselves an electrician.

I want to make it clear that I'm not into this becoming a Electrical Trainee bashing thread, I am genuinely interested as to be honest, I am currently on the fence and would like to hear your views.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

what do they say "In the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king":wink_smile:

 

[R G]

Still the best system we've got IMO up yours scams lol

Exactly , because without it , what else have we got , imagine what it would be like if it weren't there, yes it needs improving a bit , but what else is there,
We need a central register yes but if this system were improved then that would help us all I'm sure

 

[Marvo]

Okay, I'm in the process of removing all the tax references which are generally unnecessary and off topic in this thread as well.

Stay on topic and keep the discussion about the subject matter and not about other specific members.

 

[D Skelton]

But, fully qualified has to be defined? Would it be retrospective or soley based on a new qualification?

How about starting with the current core qualification the 2365? It can be retrospective to include equivalents such as the 2330 or the 2360. There would be absolutely no need for a new qualification.

Who provides the qualifications?

City & Guilds

Do they have vested interests?

No (that's not to say that they're perfect though)

I agree the whole thing is a mess, but scape goating a certain section ie. Electrical Trainee, is whats known as divide and conquer.

No, it's called looking out for public safety

Unity is obviously strength, but lets face it electricians seem more interested in cutting each others throats than sticking together or an i being unfair?

Yes, you are. If every single Electrical Trainee operating now, who was acedemically able, went and got themselves fully qualified, then I would be a happy chappy!

 

[KAS1]

JIB Grade = License end of scams

 

[overskilled]

SJIB = nonsense...
Put it this way....I could get IET certification as an Engineer, but the SJIB will NEVER give me anything beyond a labourers card. EVEN if I passed 2365, 2394,2395,2396 (and heck any other C&G course) even if I managed 100% score at first attempt...
Why? because I didn't do an "apprenticeship"....well not for lack of trying to get one....To me that doesn't make sense at all....the word "protectionism" springs to mind....
To quote the SJIB

[h=1]Electrician, including Provisional Electrician[/h] Electricians must have satisfactorily completed a recognised apprenticeship in electrical installation.

They must be able to carry out electrical installation work efficiently in accordance with relevant statutory regulations and industry codes of practice.
They must have knowledge of the National Working Rules for the Electrical Contracting Industry, relevant statutory regulations and industry codes of practice including specifically The Electricity at Work Regulations 1989, The Electricity Safety, Quality & Continuity Regulations 2002 (so far as they both deal with consumers’ installation) and BS 7671 (as amended) IET Wiring Regulations.
They must have achieved the SVQ Level 3 Certificate in electrical installation jointly awarded by Scottish Qualifications Authority (SQA) and the SJIB or an approved eqivalent.
Further information and details on the SJIB Training Schemes for Electrical Installation Apprentices and Adult Trainees can be found in Section I of the SJIB Handbook.
Provisional Electricians must have completed an apprenticeship in their country of origin and had their qualifications translated into English.
Provisional Electricians must have:
- Completed SELECT's ECS Health and Safety course; and
- City and Guilds IET Wiring Regulations to BS 7671 (full course); or
- EAL Level Diploma in Requirements for Electrical Installation (code 500/3484/4); or
- EAL Level 3 Award in Requirements for Electrical Installtion (code 600/3719/2); and
- Registered on the Crediting Electrotechnical Certification Scheme (CEC)
A Provisional Grade Card is only valid for 18 months during which time an operative must have completed the CEC Scheme and achieved an SVQ Level 3 in Electrical Installation.

All operatives applying to be graded or re-graded must be in possession of an ECS Health and Safety Assessment or approved equivalent which is not due to expire within six months.

I actually spoke with a Conservative MSP, who agreed that there were areas they were unhappy with regarding the SJIB and some of its "practices" and that they felt there were areas that needed looked into i.e. the SJIB controlling apprentice training, CSCS/ECS cards and more...I think the phrase "severe conflict of interest" was used...election cycle came around and that got kicked into the long grass...

 

[Zebra Stripe]

How about starting with the current core qualification the 2365? It can be retrospective to include equivalents such as the 2330 or the 2360. There would be absolutely no need for a new qualification. Sounds good and Im with you on that. But If the likes of the JIB are anything to go by this will not be the case.



City & Guilds



No (that's not to say that they're perfect though)



No, it's called looking out for public safety
Hey i cant spell to save my life, but Einstein was similar :crazy: And I can see your point, but would you agree that not all bad work is carried out by Electrical Trainee as I see alot of bad work carried out by 0ww.


Yes, you are. If every single Electrical Trainee operating now, who was acedemically able, went and got themselves fully qualified, then I would be a happy chappy! I wouldnt there'd be no work left....

Seriously though, I agree

I have too type this as it says I need at least 6 characters

 

[KAS1]

Standards have to be met some one say, you can't please all the people all the time

 

[D Skelton]

SJIB = nonsense...
Put it this way....I could get IET certification as an Engineer, but the SJIB will NEVER give me anything beyond a labourers card. EVEN if I passed 2365, 2394,2395,2396 (and heck any other C&G course) even if I managed 100% score at first attempt...
Why? because I didn't do an "apprenticeship"

First of all, an engineer is not an electrician and vice versa, they are completely different trades.

Secondly, yes you could, you would just need to provide proof of experience from an employer.

Getting a grade has got nothing to do with whether or not you have done an apprentiship, it has got to do with you having proved to them that you have experience. Completing an apprenticeship just happens to be the easiest way to kill two birds with one stone!

Let me make this crystal clear. The NVQ is not a qualification per se, it is proof of experience!

It is a core qualification and experience that you need to get graded, the same as it should be for a licence.

 

[Zebra Stripe]

First of all, an engineer is not an electrician and vice versa, they are completely different trades.

Secondly, yes you could, you would just need to provide proof of experience from an employer.

Getting a grade has got nothing to do with whether or not you have done an apprentiship, it has got to do with you having proved to them that you have experience. Completing an apprenticeship just happens to be the easiest way to kill two birds with one stone!

Let me make this crystal clear. The NVQ is not a qualification per se, it is proof of experience!

It is a core qualification and experience that you need to get graded, the same as it should be for a licence.

Tell that to the JIB. So how do you get proof of experience from an employer if your a sole trader>
I agree it should be core qualifications but it will go down the NVQ3 route or something similiar IMO

 

[D Skelton]

You shouldn't be able to get qualified and start operating as a sole trader anyway. You need to complete work under supervision. That is your experience!

 

[KAS1]

Well explained ...........................

 

[Zebra Stripe]

But dosnt that main contractor have to be a member of the JIB?

 

[Zebra Stripe]

You shouldn't be able to get qualified and start operating as a sole trader anyway. You need to complete work under supervision. That is your experience!

But you may start to operate as a self employed person under the supervision of another self employed person

 

[overskilled]

DS: The text regarding the apprenticeship requirement that I quoted, thats what the SJIB (Scottish JIB....far bigger pain in the rear than the JIB down south) have printed in black and white as a requirement for a grade card.....
I even asked their helpline if there was any other route to grading in Scotland other than an apprenticeship? a clear and resounding no, even asked regarding the above C&Gs and the NVQ/SVQ3...doesn't matter I was told....