Level of qualification needed to obtain licence?

[D Skelton]

I am genuinely interested to see what others thoughts are on this matter.

Hypothetically speaking, the government disbands the current scam schemes and puts out to tender a GasSafe style system for electricians. Costs are lower, standards maintained, enforcement carried out blah blah blah.... Lets just say the new system is hunky dory for arguments sake. The main difference however is that in order to practise as an electrician in the UK, you now legally have to hold an electricians licence. The word 'electrician' is also protected by statute from fraudulent and unlawful use and only useable by licence holders.

I want to know what qualifications you guys think an individual would have to posses in order to gain a licence and be legally allowed to call themselves an electrician.

I want to make it clear that I'm not into this becoming a Electrical Trainee bashing thread, I am genuinely interested as to be honest, I am currently on the fence and would like to hear your views.

 

[Hawkmoon]

I’m installing it as the customer has asked me??

I’m using a specific size of cable as it’s specification exceeds the amount of current that can be drawn by the load.

I’m using a specific cable for the type of job.. black rubber flex (outdoors – preferably RN), heat proof for immersion or from junction box to downlight, SWA when I need it protected, bell wire for door bells unless your worried about voltage drop then 0.75mm 2 core flex should be ok, etc etc etc

I want a low Zs as I want my protective device to work before my cable fry’s

Voltage drop can be dependent on lots of things… length of run, temperature, size of conductor… If you get too much VD then your load just isn’t going to work!

I need a certain size CPC so I shall use the adiabatic!

I understand the basics of electromagnetism but have to admit I do not know enough.

Types of protective measure… RCD’s, RCBO’s, MCB’s, fuse wire, cartridge fuse, double pole, single pole, triple pole..perhaps a rusty old nail!!

Please do go on and on Mr DS, I’m enjoying this

This - You want your protective device to operate before people fry

 

[D Skelton]

not been funny but 5 days to do a empty rewire, me and a friend used to do them in 2

Well whoopty do aren't you ****ing fantastic! I like to do a good job for my customers.

Did those 2 days include ripping a kitchen out and detiling? Fitting an alarm system? Chasing 10 or so socket outlets in from above on the ground floor because of a screed base? Coredrilling for vents in both the kitchen and bathroom? Planning and drawing out spotlights in three rooms? Working 8 hour days instead of 12?

Get a grip man, your beginning to sound just like another clown on these forums! Look up the meaning of the word 'variable' would you chap.

 

[pepparz]

Well whoopty do aren't you ****ing fantastic! I like to do a good job for my customers.

Did those 2 days include ripping a kitchen out and detiling? Fitting an alarm system? Chasing 10 or so socket outlets in from above on the ground floor because of a screed base? Coredrilling for vents in both the kitchen and bathroom? Planning and drawing out spotlights in three rooms? Working 8 hour days instead of 12?

Get a grip man, your beginning to sound just like another clown on these forums! Look up the meaning of the word 'variable' would you chap.

as i said im not been funny, just saying. it was subing for a electrical contractors firm. if we couldnt do them in this time they would get someone in who could.
no need to add ****** and get upset it wasnt intended as a dig.

 

[D Skelton]

Qualified sparks are NOT necessarily good sparks.

Spoken like a truly unqualified spark.

Qualified drivers are not necessarily good drivers. Does that mean that as of tomorrow we should allow all unlicensed people to drive?

There has to be a base line, some good guys will inevitably fall short of this, but a vast majority of bad guys will be unable to operate as a result. Politics my friend, it's about doing the greatest amound of good for the greatest amount of people, and in this case, the needs of the unsuspecting general public trump those of a few unqualified 'electricians'.

 

[pepparz]

anyway heres a picture of a tank type thing to cheer u up

 

[D Skelton]

no need to add ****** and get upset it wasnt intended as a dig.

Well it sounded like one so I responded in kind. Like I said, look up the meaning of the word 'variable'. The domestic rewires I have done have been a far cry from the occupied surface council rewire in two days!

 

[Guest55]

and now we get to the crunch , and squabbling lol

are we all expecting a national show of solidarity between sparks of all types for the greater good of the industry ?

oh please , someone lead the way to this idealist utopia......

until then **** the lotta ya , its every man for himself :-D

 

[uksparks]

Well whoopty do aren't you ****ing fantastic! I like to do a good job for my customers.

It strikes me that people seem to be proud to do things in the shortest time and compromise on quality of work. I am relatively new to the trade and am pleased I put quality of work first. At the end of the day if its got my name on it, I will make sure I have done my best and made sure its of a good standard.

 

[D Skelton]

Yes this is where the squabbling starts, I'm just as much to blame!

Bringing the topic back on track somewhat, if there is to be a base line qualification for the trade, what should it be?

I'm tending to favour NVQ3 or equivalent. At the very least a tech cert and proof of X number of years experience if you don't hold an NVQ3. Pretty much like the JIB would grade you for a gold card.

 

[topquark]

This issue is made harder by the continual changing of qualification numbers (labels). Although,since introduction, the AM2 label has remained a constantl! Although it's content has varied a little over the years. This should be the model used for all future qualifications, so that everyone, employee/employer(or client) recognises the value of the label. Hence, my first vote would be keep the labelling consistent and the content controlled (defined by JIB/SJIB?), by all means change the requirements and keep it up to date with technology. The periodic recert/resit would take care of the continually evolving content. So no more spining off/splitting of the base courses by the course providers please, additional qualifications only via new courses.

So a common, recognised, starting point is needed. Everyone practising should (still) be able to pass an AM2. That could be an easily attainable starting position (and everyone would be made to resit it (to be staggered over the next five years, to avoid a concidence of renewals creating a bottleneck) ... in line with the start point for a five year recert cycle).

I'd suggest the following licenses, and specialisations (ideally the label name for the qual as well) Course content and criteria for attainment of qualification tbd:

Electrician, Domestic and Commercial (this includes both SPN and TPN installation/testing/fault diagnosis, ie everything covered under the current AM2).
Electrician, Renewable Energy Specialist (additional to the above or not?) ... almost everyone will come across this before long and should know how to deal with it safely anyway.
Electrician, Commercial and Industrial Specialist.

The commercial content should be the same for both.

There would still need to be further qualifications depending on the roles you are performing. Everyone should hold a Current Edition (17th) Wiring Regs and Building Regs qual. Anyone involved in specification of systems should hold the 2396 etc.

Another other thing I don't like about the current schemes: you can run an organisation of virtually any size and you only need to have one QS! Anyone doing an electrical role must be licensed as above.

That begs the question about apprentices, how are they handled in the context of everyone needs to be qualified before doing work?

Having said that, I'm voting for NVQ3 given the options above.

 

[Guest55]

We just need one baseline set up then everyone knows the level that an electrician is at. Would the unions of the 70's allowed all this demarcation within one industry field

Yay !! Unions to the rescue !! lol
Lets bring back all the 70's socialist propaganda , high unemployment & high taxation while were at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos were on strike ?
yep another union epic fail.
you need to fast forward a few decades pal cos no-ones buying into that crap anymore.

 

[D Skelton]

Yay !! Unions to the rescue !! lol
Lets bring back all the 70's socialist propaganda , high unemployment & high taxation while were at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos were on strike ?
yep another union epic fail.
you need to fast forward a few decades pal cos no-ones buying into that crap anymore.

Yay !! Big business to the rescue !! lol
Lets carry on allowing companies to pay their staff less than they actually need to live on, high unemployment & high taxation of the poor while we're at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos privatistion of state supplied services means that cuts get made to frontline staff and we suffer as a result.
yep another capatilist government epic fail.
you need to look at other moderate socialist countries to see how it does work, and how this false idea of a free market does nothing but push wages down and the cost of living up!

Now then, lets all look up the meaning of the word 'digression' in the dictionary

 

[Guest55]

Yay !! Big business to the rescue !! lol
Lets carry on allowing companies to pay their staff less than they actually need to live on, high unemployment & high taxation of the poor while we're at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos privatistion of state supplied services means that cuts get made to frontline staff and we suffer as a result.
yep another capatilist government epic fail.
you need to look at other moderate socialist countries to see how it does work, and how this false idea of a free market does nothing but push wages down and the cost of living up!

Now then, lets all look up the meaning of the word 'digression' in the dictionary

with such strong views it sounds to me you'd be more suited to a state controlled administration desk job than operating a business in an open market.

epic career choice fail for mr skelton................. ;-)

if you want to talk about the economic ins and outs of it all be my guest
but all this political jibber jabber is boring the crap out of me , its been done to death.

 

[ipf]

Yay !! Big business to the rescue !! lol
Lets carry on allowing companies to pay their staff less than they actually need to live on, high unemployment & high taxation of the poor while we're at it.
Bins overflowing & no rubbish collection cos privatistion of state supplied services means that cuts get made to frontline staff and we suffer as a result.
yep another capatilist government epic fail.
you need to look at other moderate socialist countries to see how it does work, and how this false idea of a free market does nothing but push wages down and the cost of living up!

Now then, lets all look up the meaning of the word 'digression' in the dictionary

....and note where the bed of industry lies.

 

[D Skelton]

with such strong views it sounds to me you'd be more suited to a state controlled administration desk job than operating a business in an open market.

epic career choice fail for mr skelton................. ;-)

You don't have to have an open market to allow business' to thrive! Moderate socialism doesn't have to be the death of business! I am in no way anti-business, just anti corporation!

True socialism doesn't work, as you say, moderately controlled socialism makes for a very healthy economy however!

Do you know what, if I ever got to the stage of being some millionaire businessman with 50 staff I would be more than happy to do two things; 1. Pay my staff at the very least a living wage, and 2. Pay more into the pot through a higher tax bracket for those less fortunate than I.

That's all moderate socialism is really