Lighting Circuit Nuetrals in Domestic Light Switches | Page 2 | on ElectriciansForums

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B

Barrie Patrick

Its been many years since I passed my Apprenticeship and was active on the tools and although a little rusty, (the last training I did was a familiarisation course and an Inspection & Testing Course when the 17th Edition of the IEE Regs replaced the 16th Edition, 1988?) I think I am still a decent Electrician and good Tradesman so can still tell whats right and wrong but as so much has changed in the industry there can always be a little doubt in the back of your mind and I would like a couple of questions confirming?

I recently went to my Neices birthday party at their new house and one of my nephews said the 2 way lighting on the upstairs landing wasn't working and could I have a quick look rather than get myy neices friends, girlfriends brother, who had changed their Consumer Unit and wired up their garage to come again and sort it, I had a look and quickly found it was wrongly connected making 1 switch master to the other so I put it right. My neice was that proud of her new home she showed me round, we went to the garage and alarm bells started to go off, it has 3 lights controlled from a 2 gang light switch by the door, the lighting is wired in white 1.5mm 3 core and earth badly clipped with unevenly spaced clips of varying types and sizes and the switch box is very deep, looks crap but not necesarily unsafe, however there are 4 individual 3 core cables hanging down the wall unclipped and going into the switch box. I took off the cover and in the back were connectors for the 4 nuetrals (black) and 4 earths (Green/Yellow sleeved), the browns were the live feed in, loop to the next room that was built in the back of the garage and the 2 switch wires and the greys had all been cut off, so I took off the switch in the little room and the nuetral was also wired through the switch.

I looked at the Consumer Unit and it looked nicely done but no notices or circuit information given, only the ring main cables for downstairs were to short and the cables had been extended using proper joint boxes fixed to the wall underneath the new CU However no evidance of testing.

My questions are, and I already know the answer:

1) Its not in accordance with the BS 7671 or good practice to wire nuetrals through a switch, unless a double pole switch is used and certainly bad practice to use a connector pushed into the back of the box for the nuetrals and earth?

2) Lighting should be wired using the 3 plate system, no nuetrals at switches?

3) Under the Building regs the work is notifiable and the whole installation should be tested?

Barrie
 
Hi Again Midwest,

I have installed some down lighting fited with cold running LED's in my kitchen and utility room and downstairs toilet using the existing 3 plate lighting system, I just used a junction box to create the lighting point in each room then looped the switched live and perminant neutral and earth (cpc) from light to light, it all went in very nicely.............. Please dont tell me there is now a Reg that says I should have switched the neutral LOL

Barrie
....No, but there is a reg(526.3) that states all joint/junction boxes need to be accessible or be of the maintenance free type! Are yours? Oh, and welcome to the forum.
 
Hi,

I can see where you are coming from Barrie, when I did my apprenticeship I would of been slated if I had run neutrals through switches ; it was a definite No No. Same as running any circuit through a DB, but times have changed especially with the advent of downlights ( we only ever had pendants or florries back in the day). I have been doing some work on my place on the upstairs lighting and I still use the old JB04 method, not everyone's cup of tea; but does it for me.

Regards.
 
Hi,

I can see where you are coming from Barrie, when I did my apprenticeship I would of been slated if I had run neutrals through switches ; it was a definite No No. Same as running any circuit through a DB, but times have changed especially with the advent of downlights ( we only ever had pendants or florries back in the day). I have been doing some work on my place on the upstairs lighting and I still use the old JB04 method, not everyone's cup of tea; but does it for me.

Regards.
Yep, times have changed , not going to go into it because N's in switch's have been flogged to death on here.
 
Hi MidWest,

Thanks for that. I actually read it, well virtually all of it, last night. Bit of a learning curve here for me at present as I've never actually had to deal with building regs before in respect of a domestic electrical installation but I have been doing a lot of reading and its all very interesting. Personally I've said that due to the likely age of the wiring and the fact I think a gifted amatuer has carried out a few alterations to the wiring over the years I'd start again and get it rewired but time will tell?

Barrie

Barrie
 
Hi StantheMan,

Thanks for your message, I'm enjoying being here.

I dont think the J/B I used is a maintenance free one but it is what I would call accessible, sure others may disagree. I know where its fitted and the trap in the floorboards of the bedroom where it is, is marked (Kitchen lighting J/B), however there is carpet and underlay over the floorboards and the dreaded furniture would need moving but this is how I was taught and I think its good enough.

Barrie
 
Hi Clive P,

Thank you for taking the time to reply to my questions, I'm really relieved I'm not the only one who remembers that running neutrals through switches was taboo but everything evolves and if you can learn something new everyday you're doing well,

Barrie
 
The reason that neutrals in switches is no longer considered bad practice is that nobody has ever come up with a valid reason as to why it is bad practice.
The arguments are that the neutral is not necessary in a switch box. That argument ignores the fact that a permanent live is not necessary at a 3 plate light point.
Another argument is that a switch box is not a suitable enclosure for joints,which ignores the fact that neither is a light fitting.
 
Hi StantheMan,

Thanks for your message, I'm enjoying being here.

I dont think the J/B I used is a maintenance free one but it is what I would call accessible, sure others may disagree. I know where its fitted and the trap in the floorboards of the bedroom where it is, is marked (Kitchen lighting J/B), however there is carpet and underlay over the floorboards and the dreaded furniture would need moving but this is how I was taught and I think its good enough.

Barrie

Definitely not accessible then I would say :) And the problem is, although you know where it is, no-one else does in years to come. Maybe wago's would have been better here? Daz
 
Definitely not accessible then I would say :) And the problem is, although you know where it is, no-one else does in years to come. Maybe wago's would have been better here? Daz
I,m sure that junction box will fine and as long as all terminals are nice and tight the junction box if fixed and the cable cliped it will be good for 100 years or more !!! :)
 

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