Lighting Circuit Nuetrals in Domestic Light Switches

[Barrie Patrick]

Its been many years since I passed my Apprenticeship and was active on the tools and although a little rusty, (the last training I did was a familiarisation course and an Inspection & Testing Course when the 17th Edition of the IEE Regs replaced the 16th Edition, 1988?) I think I am still a decent Electrician and good Tradesman so can still tell whats right and wrong but as so much has changed in the industry there can always be a little doubt in the back of your mind and I would like a couple of questions confirming?

I recently went to my Neices birthday party at their new house and one of my nephews said the 2 way lighting on the upstairs landing wasn't working and could I have a quick look rather than get myy neices friends, girlfriends brother, who had changed their Consumer Unit and wired up their garage to come again and sort it, I had a look and quickly found it was wrongly connected making 1 switch master to the other so I put it right. My neice was that proud of her new home she showed me round, we went to the garage and alarm bells started to go off, it has 3 lights controlled from a 2 gang light switch by the door, the lighting is wired in white 1.5mm 3 core and earth badly clipped with unevenly spaced clips of varying types and sizes and the switch box is very deep, looks crap but not necesarily unsafe, however there are 4 individual 3 core cables hanging down the wall unclipped and going into the switch box. I took off the cover and in the back were connectors for the 4 nuetrals (black) and 4 earths (Green/Yellow sleeved), the browns were the live feed in, loop to the next room that was built in the back of the garage and the 2 switch wires and the greys had all been cut off, so I took off the switch in the little room and the nuetral was also wired through the switch.

I looked at the Consumer Unit and it looked nicely done but no notices or circuit information given, only the ring main cables for downstairs were to short and the cables had been extended using proper joint boxes fixed to the wall underneath the new CU However no evidance of testing.

My questions are, and I already know the answer:

1) Its not in accordance with the BS 7671 or good practice to wire nuetrals through a switch, unless a double pole switch is used and certainly bad practice to use a connector pushed into the back of the box for the nuetrals and earth?

2) Lighting should be wired using the 3 plate system, no nuetrals at switches?

3) Under the Building regs the work is notifiable and the whole installation should be tested?

Barrie

 

[DPG]

Ok, so you fix the jb to the joist. The cable that comes from it to the down light will still move around when, as you say, you are messing with the light. Not having it fixed would actually be better for the terminations.
bnin

No, use a JB with strain relief for both the incoming and outgoing cables. Doesn't have to be fixed then and no dangr of cables working loose. Daz

 

[Andy78]

Ok, so you fix the jb to the joist. The cable that comes from it to the down light will still move around when, as you say, you are messing with the light. Not having it fixed would actually be better for the terminations.
bnin

The reason you would fix the JB to a surface is so that you could add external strain relief in the form of cable clips.

 

[Jay Sparks]

But how can you clip the cable supplying the down light. LiKe i said, there is very little chance of movement on the terminations if the job is done right. How often do you need to take the down light down.

 

[ipf]

Heavens above! We're 'outlawing' decently installed, unfixed brown jb's, above recessed lights when you look at the state of some of the items we come across. Let's get real.....

 

[DPG]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is outlawing decently installed traditional round junction boxes! Daz

 

[Andy78]

All that's being stated is what's currently compliant and what's not.
This may or may not have a bearing on what makes sense or has a bearing on real life issues in installs.

 

[ipf]

To be fair, I don't think anyone is outlawing decently installed traditional round junction boxes! Daz

'outlawing'....being used as a term of phrase, not literally......but almost as good as, and I'm sure some would take it that way.
It's just making mountains out of molehills, again.

 

[Midwest]

Common chaps you can't argue DPG's point. Brown circular JB's have been around donkeys years. They were designed to be fixed to a surface, joist perhaps, and the cables entering them were clipped to said joist. No strain likely on terminals. That was how I was taught as an apprentice. Over the cause of time, these JB's have been used in a way they weren't designed for, done it myself.
I very rarely use them now, preferring MF boxes. Cables entering fittings (sockets etc) are normally clipped, in trunking etc or covered over with plaster. Is someone takes off the faceplate (Mr Decorator), well you can't cover all bases, and is another matter entirely. All of the of the downliight I've fitted have a cable strain clamp. Not the case for all other luminaires I grant you.