lighting circuits - just for lights????

[jedisparks]

On a domestic lighting circuit it is not uncommon to find an extractor fan, shaver point sometimes a smoke alarm or even a doorbell transformer. Just wondered what peoples' views on this is. It's the norm for extractors and shavers I know, but they are not lights so should the CU be labelled accordingly? How about if a smoke alarm is connected to a lighting circuit or door bell transformer? Where do you draw the line and at what point is it not acceptable to connect an item of current using equipment to a lighting circuit that isn't actually a light? What has provoked this question is that a client has asked me to power a wireless heating controller via the live and neutral supply from a local light switch. It's a Honeywell evo home system, so the controller doesn't switch any loads as such, just sends and receives signals. I'm not keen on the idea, but how can I justify a possible refusal to do it - if other non-lighting products are connected. He is pretty savvy, so need decent justification without looking like a knob lol!!

 

[VoltzElectrical]

or just do it and stop creating problems where there aren't any?

 

[dan86]

you're getting paid to do the job.just do it.nothing wrong with it, whether or not you would personally do it that way is irrelevant.

 

[MDJ]

why can't you connect to the boiler supply as the other end can go anywhere as it is battery?

 

[Thefailsafe2012]

Why dont you want to do it? What's the alternative? Pull a new radial through for one item that doesn't even draw anything? If you tell your customer that he might refuse the job for you

 

[decolad69]

you're getting paid to do the job.just do it.nothing wrong with it, whether or not you would personally do it that way is irrelevant.

Work is tight enough why make life difficult? If i was your client i would think twice about calling you again ! sorry.

 

[RyanCheetham]

Nothing wrong with equipment other than lights on a lighting circuit as long as all regs are met ie overloads and disconnection times. If you are bothered that much by it you can get an 'installation notes' sticker for the c/u and you can leave comments on it such as 'heating switch powered by downstairs light circuit'

 

[dan86]

Work is tight enough why make life difficult? If i was your client i would think twice about calling you again ! sorry.

eh? why did you quote me then write that?!

 

[glasgospark]

On a domestic lighting circuit it is not uncommon to find an extractor fan, shaver point sometimes a smoke alarm or even a doorbell transformer. Just wondered what peoples' views on this is. It's the norm for extractors and shavers I know, but they are not lights so should the CU be labelled accordingly? How about if a smoke alarm is connected to a lighting circuit or door bell transformer? Where do you draw the line and at what point is it not acceptable to connect an item of current using equipment to a lighting circuit that isn't actually a light? What has provoked this question is that a client has asked me to power a wireless heating controller via the live and neutral supply from a local light switch. It's a Honeywell evo home system, so the controller doesn't switch any loads as such, just sends and receives signals. I'm not keen on the idea, but how can I justify a possible refusal to do it - if other non-lighting products are connected. He is pretty savvy, so need decent justification without looking like a knob lol!!

sounds like you dont need money to keep a business going , do what he asks nothing wrong with it , even leave a note at db saying its attached to lighting circuit in what room at what height etc etc :O

 

[fog]

I would say check the total loads on the circuit if there not exceeding maximum capacity fine. Also agree with above comment place sticker on c/u to identify whats on the circuit you are adding to.

 

[Knobhead]

Easy solution. Run every single light, socket, fixed appliance et al on its own radial.

Anyone know if they make a 60 way CU that will fit in that cupboard under the stairs?

 

[decolad69]

eh? why did you quote me then write that?!

Sorry, I did not mean to quote you ! I was agreeing with you !

 

[dan86]

let you off then

 

[jedisparks]

or just do it and stop creating problems where there aren't any?

Who's 'creating problems'? I was just interested in the views of others, but thanks for your input.

 

[jedisparks]

Work is tight enough why make life difficult? If i was your client i would think twice about calling you again ! sorry.

Not looking to make life difficult at all, was just interested in other views. thanks for your input.

 

[jedisparks]

Why dont you want to do it? What's the alternative? Pull a new radial through for one item that doesn't even draw anything? If you tell your customer that he might refuse the job for you

No, My idea would be to have a fused spur off of the ring. but this would be a bit more work as the client ideally wants the unit just below the light switch. Hence why I thought some views from others might be useful. I haven't refused to do anything either, it's just a job that is coming up. Thanks for your input

 

[glasgospark]

No, My idea would be to have a fused spur off of the ring. but this would be a bit more work as the client ideally wants the unit just below the light switch. Hence why I thought some views from others might be useful. I haven't refused to do anything either, it's just a job that is coming up. Thanks for your input

OMG you would actually spur from a ring to feed something that doesnt need to plug into a socket

 

[jedisparks]

Easy solution. Run every single light, socket, fixed appliance et al on its own radial.

Anyone know if they make a 60 way CU that will fit in that cupboard under the stairs?

Good one!

 

[Robert Turnbull]

why can't you connect to the boiler supply as the other end can go anywhere as it is battery?

and would be on the relevant circuit

 

[jedisparks]

OMG you would actually spur from a ring to feed something that doesnt need to plug into a socket

The Honeywell evo home units DO plug in. I assume you have not come across them.

 

[glasgospark]

The Honeywell evo home units DO plug in. I assume you have not come across them.

haha your argument to try and not connect to a switch becames even more irrelevant

 

[dan86]

Easy solution. Run every single light, socket, fixed appliance et al on its own radial.

Anyone know if they make a 60 way CU that will fit in that cupboard under the stairs?

make fault finding a damn sight easier!

 

[Spark92]

I wouldnt put the smokes on the lights.... gotta be independant... or its me just being picky haha

 

[jedisparks]

and would be on the relevant circuit

This would be ideal except it's 20ft away from where they want it. This Honeywell evo home kit is quite new, what you get is a controller that goes in say the living room from where you can control every single radiator separately, as each radiator has an RF thermostatic valve. The controller also controls a relay, again RF, which is what switches the boiler via the zone valves. The controller comes with a plug in lead but the units can be wall mounted and we want to make it tidy. The idea is that the controller doesn't go where the boiler is.

 

[glasgospark]

I wouldnt put the smokes on the lights.... gotta be independant... or its me just being picky haha

actually better on the lights , as if the breaker for smokey trips the lights go out then you know
although the smokeys do beep when power cut off

 

[Geoffsd]

After you have done the job change the label on the cu to

"Honeywell evo home system and lights"

then it will be a Honeywell evo home system circuit.

 

[VoltzElectrical]

I wouldnt put the smokes on the lights.... gotta be independant... or its me just being picky haha

no it doesn't.

 

[Spark92]

I wouldnt put the smokes on the lights.... gotta be independant... or its me just being picky haha

actually better on the lights , as if the breaker for smokey trips the lights go out then you know
although the smokeys do beep when power cut off

True... but if the lights trip you have no smokes ( well... running of battery)

 

[glasgospark]

True... but if the lights trip you have no smokes ( well... running of battery)

exactly then urging a repair asap

 

[jedisparks]

haha your argument to try and not connect to a switch becames even more irrelevant

don't think you get it mate, nevermind

 

[glasgospark]

don't think you get it mate, nevermind

i get it , your a bit ott in domestic electrical wiring

 

[Spark92]

True... but if the lights trip you have no smokes ( well... running of battery)

exactly then urging a repair asap

But if the smokes are on its own circuit. You will still have your lights on.... all yourl have is an annoying beep from the smokes

 

[glasgospark]

But if the smokes are on its own circuit. You will still have your lights on.... all yourl have is an annoying beep from the smokes

what if the non spark occupier takes battery out

 

[dan86]

what if the non spark occupier takes battery out

when the house burns down, then gets rebuilt, you get the job for wiring it

 

[glasgospark]

when the house burns down, then gets rebuilt, you get the job for wiring it

lol supose

 

[Spark92]

what if the non spark occupier takes battery out

They shouldnt take the batt out. Lol well you just got to hope they dont anyway

 

[glasgospark]

another solution smokes on own circuit with 1 light on it aswell mybe the light nearest db i.e outside electrical cupboard

 

[Paul.M]

From the OP:-

"Where do you draw the line and at what point is it not acceptable to connect an item of current using equipment to a lighting circuit that isn't actually a light?"

A. Anything you want or need to feed from the circuit in question. Long as the MCB and cable can handle the load of which your introducing.

There is no such thing as a "lighting circuit" or "socket circuit", they are all circuits that was designed to function as a lighting or socket circuit at first and then through later design, calculations and installment became a circuit that feeds more than one type of load.

Q. Can the cable, MCB/RCD handle the new load? Is the cable the same size? no need for a fcu then. What is the total load at the moment and what will you introduce onto it?

 

[VoltzElectrical]

From the OP:-

"Where do you draw the line and at what point is it not acceptable to connect an item of current using equipment to a lighting circuit that isn't actually a light?"

A. Anything you want or need to feed from the circuit in question. Long as the MCB and cable can handle the load of which your introducing.


Exactly, and well put. A final circuit that serves lighting or power outlet accessed by 13A sockets does do not automatically become 'exclusive' lighting or socket circuits.

Thanks again Paul.
There is no such thing as a "lighting circuit" or "socket circuit", they are all circuits that was designed to function as a lighting or socket circuit at first and then through later design, calculations and installment became a circuit that feeds more than one type of load.

Q. Can the cable, MCB/RCD handle the new load? Is the cable the same size? no need for a fcu then. What is the total load at the moment and what will you introduce onto it?

Exactly, and well put. A final circuit that serves lighting or power outlet accessed by 13A sockets does do not automatically become 'exclusive' lighting or socket circuits.

Thanks again Paul.

- - - Updated - - -

sorry, cocked that up a bit

 

[Paul.M]

Volts mate, you really need to sort out your "quote from post". LOL

But thanks