Lighting contactors

[Richard3009]

When installing loads of lights in a warehouse, is it common practice to use lighting contactors driven from a standard light switch, what would a typical installation on a large scale consist of.

 

[gazj82]

Sorry I didn't read exactly what the op was switching, so apologies for that. The instance I had to use them in they were handy. 3 switches, any switch can turn on or of several circuits of lighting together. The only real advantage as I say is not having contactors energised for 16 hours a day, which I guess is not a huge issue with good quality contactors which I have also used in the past.

It's just another method, I just quite like it Not saying it's for everyone, just thought I would put it out there.

I haven't bought them for a while, but I don't remember them being overly expensive, I also don't remember them having a computer interface either, so they may have had a price hike, or they do with and without computer interface, this was just the first one google threw up.

 

[gazj82]

Me for one, I have to put in lighting feeds of up to 400A three phase sometimes

I have used impulse/latching relays in lighting control in the past, but usually when replacing an existing system with momentary push button control or if for some reason momentary push button control is required.

I have installed greenhouse lighting circuits of up to 32A, so I am aware that it happens.

I have also installed 2 phase (split phase, I going to get flamed now for terminology as people always do on this forum) 600w fittings in greenhouses too. All interesting stuff.

 

[Darkwood]

I suppose they are an all in one package for easy install and ready to use and as you say simple switching operation but personally I'd design my own using a PLC switching the contactors and thus can add my own computer interface set-up and timing options, even fit a touch pad screen for greater control and dimming options.
I've only bothered doing the PLC set-up once and came in at half the material cost that of a smart lighting control kit on the market ...customer was happy as larry, I used 3 position center off spring return switches - push at bottom for full lighting, push repeatedly at top for number of rows you required lit, rather simple program and even set auto timer function and Holiday timer in it, no staff interaction needed. A few yrs later the customer asked me if it could be changed so got the requirements told him to plug it in online and I sent new program within 30mins of request ...he couldn't believe I was able to just change it all without even visiting site....One happy customer and it was invoiced as a callout... now lets see anyone achieve that will pulsed relays and modular timers etc

Not trying to knock the pulsed lighting relays they are a ready to use easy to install set-up most sparks should be able to follow although Ive seen a few struggle even with these :O

 

[gazj82]

I suppose they are an all in one package for easy install and ready to use and as you say simple switching operation but personally I'd design my own using a PLC switching the contactors and thus can add my own computer interface set-up and timing options, even fit a touch pad screen for greater control and dimming options.
I've only bothered doing the PLC set-up once and came in at half the material cost that of a smart lighting control kit on the market ...customer was happy as larry, I used 3 position center off spring return switches - push at bottom for full lighting, push repeatedly at top for number of rows you required lit, rather simple program and even set auto timer function and Holiday timer in it, no staff interaction needed. A few yrs later the customer asked me if it could be changed so got the requirements told him to plug it in online and I sent new program within 30mins of request ...he couldn't believe I was able to just change it all without even visiting site....One happy customer and it was invoiced as a callout... now lets see anyone achieve that will pulsed relays and modular timers etc

Not trying to knock the pulsed lighting relays they are a ready to use easy to install set-up most sparks should be able to follow although Ive seen a few struggle even with these :O

Very impressive I've seen "Electricians" struggle with some of the most simple things over the years darkwood.

A lot of the greenhouse lighting I do (and heating, humidity, CO2 and everything else) is usually all controlled via Trend BMS systems, never got into the software side mind, should do really as I was always very good at basic computer programing when I was a kid back in the 80's so I guess it "might" come quite easily to me.

Again had a little to do with PLC's over the years, but certainly would not say I am "experienced"

 

[Knobhead]

Fine, for industrial setup, I have done a packhouse previously with over 40 fluorescent fittings controlled by these, obviously the switches operated a few of them all together. How many people are putting in lighting circuits >10A anyway?

Those of us that live in the big bad world.

 

[Darkwood]

Fine, for industrial setup, I have done a packhouse previously with over 40 fluorescent fittings controlled by these, obviously the switches operated a few of them all together. How many people are putting in lighting circuits >10A anyway?

Yes missed that TONY! .... Its a world away from small scale installs .....

How many people are putting in lighting circuits >10A anyway?....

Supermarkets.
Large warehouses
Shopping complexes
Big factories

TBH the list goes on ... this is that difference between small jobs and MOHASSIVE ones, most sparks never even have to design a large scale lighting install never mind been competent to (you don't get taught to nowadays)

No disrespect but when you post how many sparks are putting in lighting circuits over 10amps it shows your limited experience across the electrical industry ... design your thoughts on the OP's question ..be interesting to see how you do it.

 

[shanky887614]

[/COLOR]Yes missed that TONY! .... Its a world away from small scale installs .....

How many people are putting in lighting circuits >10A anyway?....

Supermarkets.
Large warehouses
Shopping complexes
Big factories

TBH the list goes on ... this is that difference between small jobs and MOHASSIVE ones, most sparks never even have to design a large scale lighting install never mind been competent to (you don't get taught to nowadays)

No disrespect but when you post how many sparks are putting in lighting circuits over 10amps it shows your limited experience across the electrical industry ... design your thoughts on the OP's question ..be interesting to see how you do it.

using a D type mcb will allow a greater inrush, adding in some time delayed relays/contactors into the mix wouldn't hurt on larger installs either.

i know thermistors etc can be used to limit the inrush etc but i wouldn't know the best way myself because we dont normally do lighting

 

[gazj82]

I never said it didn't happen! Geez! I even said I have done it in the past myself! My point was they are suitable for the majority of circuits that are in the realms of standard / average.

 

[trev]

Gaz, once you're out of the domestic situation there's no such thing as standard/average.
Come to think of it it's getting that way even with domestic to a point.

 

[Worcester]

Why aren't you using LED's they pay for themselves in energy savings, lower rated infrastructure and maintenance / whole cost of replacement . Crazy not to use LED's in today's world

 

[davesparks]

Why aren't you using LED's they pay for themselves in energy savings, lower rated infrastructure and maintenance / whole cost of replacement . Crazy not to use LED's in today's world

Probably because it's a theoretical question

 

[Worcester]

Well to anser the hypothetical question "what would a typical installation on a large scale consist of."

It would be LED's today so the loads are completely different from what's been discussed...

 

[Darkwood]

Well to anser the hypothetical question "what would a typical installation on a large scale consist of."

It would be LED's today so the loads are completely different from what's been discussed...

Typical sales pitch ... they are Energy efficient but the light spectrum does not suit every industry, also because the LED industry is still in it infancy very few are giving a life that is printed on the tin, its a very large upfront cost that most cannot afford and can take several years to see a return.

Ive fitted LED solutions on several occasions and TBH in industrial they are hit and miss as complaints come in thick and fast regardless of Lux readings been the same if not better than the metal Halides they replaced.

I even had a scheme design by the rep's of the supplier and we did a 3 yr run on a area and at present for a fitting giving expected life of 50,000 hrs all have failed (12 fittings) except one in under 30% of their stated lifespan... we are currently in legal procedures with the suppliers, this is not a back alley company but a well known market leader but as its still in legal grounds I not name and shame.

The LED market is still maturing and so many jumped on the bandwagon it got saturated with cheap crap retailing at high prices and regardless of the actual LED's been good for 20-50 thousand hrs it was the electronics that failed frequently.

Would you buy something claiming 50,000 hrs with no more than a 3 yr cover ..... No! ....some off the leading quality ones now give 10yrs cover so show me a high bay with that cover and Ill consider it!

I didn't get drawn in by the hype but my customer did and against all my warnings they went ahead ... my bit was done I get payed either way my brownie points went up when they started failing

 

[Knobhead]

30 1000W MBFU's in one workshop alone. 120Ft to the lighting gantries.

What would you recomend?

 

[Andy78]

Typical sales pitch ... they are Energy efficient but the light spectrum does not suit every industry, also because the LED industry is still in it infancy very few are giving a life that is printed on the tin, its a very large upfront cost that most cannot afford and can take several years to see a return.

Ive fitted LED solutions on several occasions and TBH in industrial they are hit and miss as complaints come in thick and fast regardless of Lux readings been the same if not better than the metal Halides they replaced.

I even had a scheme design by the rep's of the supplier and we did a 3 yr run on a area and at present for a fitting giving expected life of 50,000 hrs all have failed (12 fittings) except one in under 30% of their stated lifespan... we are currently in legal procedures with the suppliers, this is not a back alley company but a well known market leader but as its still in legal grounds I not name and shame.

The LED market is still maturing and so many jumped on the bandwagon it got saturated with cheap crap retailing at high prices and regardless of the actual LED's been good for 20-50 thousand hrs it was the electronics that failed frequently.

Would you buy something claiming 50,000 hrs with no more than a 3 yr cover ..... No! ....some off the leading quality ones now give 10yrs cover so show me a high bay with that cover and Ill consider it!

I am also in the middle of getting a batch replacement of 5 year warranted downlights I fitted in a coffee shop. Fitted in November last year, 2/3 of the batch of 25 has failed. They have tried jerking me around but I put my foot down in an email today that got some results.
I know this is not industrial led lighting, but this is a major led retailer that offers a 5 year warranty. I have not yet, despite months of pestering, received any written confirmation of this 5 year warranty on any product I have bought from them.

Caveat emptor !