Local isolation

[067256]

Hello,
I am looking for clarification on a big kitchen refit that I am quoting for. Lots of built in appliances and the very fussy customer is against local isolation above work tops, in cupboards etc...
On the other side of the kitchen wall is the garage. Can I place all isolation switches in there or could this be an 'accessibility' issue?
Thank-you

 

[Engineer54]

Simple question:
For what reason do you believe local isolation would be required?
"Asking for trouble", "live to regret", sounds serious.

If you are referring to my comment (post 14) then i was referring to these so called minimalist kitchens that these arty farty type TV interior design presenters advocate where they don't want to see anything above the worktop, eg, sockets switches or anything else. The fact that a kitchen is a workplace is of no concern to them, it only has to look nice (well to their mind anyway)

Most of these customers that follow these daft programmes end up with a kitchen that doesn't/can't function as a family kitchen, hence the ''live to regret'' comment!!

Following on, in some cases these daft ideas can be bloody dangerous with appliance leads exiting cabinet doors up on to the work top, just waiting for someone to accidentally/inadvertently catch the lead and pull a hot kettle or some other appliance containing hot liquids off the worktop. Now that sounds pretty serious to me!! lol!!

 

[driverman]

I went and had a nose round a new build house other day. Very nice kitchen installed with all sing all dancing appliances etc. Many tall appliances side by side and elec hob , oven. All the "local" isolation switches were surface mounted at the back of a tall broom cupboard (narrow top part). Looked unusual for so many switches to be sited there. Anyway, not easy to get to in a hurry, steps required and no doubt clear cupboard out first.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It seems to be that some of you are suggesting that there is a requirement for emergency switching?
If that is the case, then surely the requirements for emergency switching would have to be satisfied?
Switches would have to red, they would have to clearly identify whichever appliance they control, they would have to be placed in such a position that they can be operated safely.
There is also a requirement that the appliance should not be re-energised when the emergency switch is released.
How many of you have seen such emergency switching in domestic kitchens?

 

[driverman]

It seems to be that some of you are suggesting that there is a requirement for emergency switching?
If that is the case, then surely the requirements for emergency switching would have to be satisfied?
Switches would have to red, they would have to clearly identify whichever appliance they control, they would have to be placed in such a position that they can be operated safely.
There is also a requirement that the appliance should not be re-energised when the emergency switch is released.
How many of you have seen such emergency switching in domestic kitchens?

Possibly I'm old school, brought up that every appliance had to have a local isolation switch usually within 2m. It would appear that this rule disappeared a bit back. However I still think IF anything should go wrong ,the appliance could be easily switched off locally.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

It does seem to be that there is a quite commen belief that emergency switching is required in domestic kitchens, especially for under counter appliances.
What I don't understand, is that I have never seen it installed.
I have seen functional switching, and invariably it includes additional fusing, which to my understanding if anything actually contravenes the Regulations.

There was a requirement in the 15th edition, that related to a single switch being used to control two cookers neither of which were allowed to be more than 2m away from the switch.

 

[ian.settle1]

Hello,
I am looking for clarification on a big kitchen refit that I am quoting for. Lots of built in appliances and the very fussy customer is against local isolation above work tops, in cupboards etc...
On the other side of the kitchen wall is the garage. Can I place all isolation switches in there or could this be an 'accessibility' issue?
Thank-you

If it is on the other side of the wall in the garage how would it be classed as local?

 

[D Skelton]

It does seem to be that there is a quite commen belief that emergency switching is required in domestic kitchens, especially for under counter appliances.
What I don't understand, is that I have never seen it installed.
I have seen functional switching, and invariably it includes additional fusing, which to my understanding if anything actually contravenes the Regulations.

There was a requirement in the 15th edition, that related to a single switch being used to control two cookers neither of which were allowed to be more than 2m away from the switch.

There is a requirement for fixed electric motors to have a means of switching off that is readily accessible and so placed as to prevent danger. A fitted kitchen appliance containing a motor would fall under this remit.

That said, this could be satisfied if such fixed appliances had integrated on/off switches.

 

[D Skelton]

My method if I'm wiring a kitchen;

All fixed appliances are hard wired in to a flex outlet, which in turn is fed from a fused switch, whether that be a SFCU above the worktop, or a grid.

 

[trev]

Yep she's against a grid switch too!

Against a grid switch, over the kitchen sink or the dining table. Either way it's a result

 

[Engineer54]

There is a requirement for fixed electric motors to have a means of switching off that is readily accessible and so placed as to prevent danger. A fitted kitchen appliance containing a motor would fall under this remit.

That said, this could be satisfied if such fixed appliances had integrated on/off switches.

A means of local isolation does not include an integrated switch, it refers to a means of isolating the appliance/equipment from it's source of supply.

Such switches should be easily accessible, preferably locally adjacent, or at the very least, in line of sight of the equipment it is isolating. Certainly not located in another room or unrelated area...

 

[D Skelton]

A means of local isolation does not include an integrated switch, it refers to a means of isolating the appliance/equipment from it's source of supply.

Such switches should be easily accessible, preferably locally adjacent, or at the very least, in line of sight of the equipment it is isolating. Certainly not located in another room or unrelated area...

I didn't mention local isolation did I though? I was talking about a readily accessible means of switching off, which is required by BS 7671 for fixed electric motors, whereas 'local isolation' isn't.

 

[Engineer54]

I didn't mention local isolation did I though? I was talking about a readily accessible means of switching off, which is required by BS 7671 for fixed electric motors, whereas 'local isolation' isn't.

But the thread IS talking about a means of local isolation/functional isolation!! And as you described the means of achieving this in a domestic kitchen environment, is the correct way of going about it...

A on/off switch on the appliance, whether it incorporates a motor or not, does not fulfill that means....

 

[Deleted member 26818]

There is no requirement to provide isolation for fixed electric motors, in BS7671.
There are requirements that such isolation must satisfy if it is provided.

BS7671 only requires local isolation in certain circumstance, for instance High voltage discharge lighting and where emergency switching is required.
Unless your kitchen contains High Voltage discharge lighting, or you require emergency switching, isolation can be just about anywhere.
Again if emergency switching is required, a whole raft of other requirements have to be met which I have never come across in a domestic kitchen.

I really think that if people are going to argue in favour of local isolation, they should be able to quote a Regulation, rather than just make it up as they go along.

To my knowledge, the only requirements in BS7671 for local isolation, relate to High Voltage discharge lighting.
Not really applicable for domestic kitchens.

 

[Engineer54]

There is no requirement to provide isolation for fixed electric motors, in BS7671.
There are requirements that such isolation must satisfy if it is provided.

BS7671 only requires local isolation in certain circumstance, for instance High voltage discharge lighting and where emergency switching is required.
Unless your kitchen contains High Voltage discharge lighting, or you require emergency switching, isolation can be just about anywhere.
Again if emergency switching is required, a whole raft of other requirements have to be met which I have never come across in a domestic kitchen.

I really think that if people are going to argue in favour of local isolation, they should be able to quote a Regulation, rather than just make it up as they go along.

To my knowledge, the only requirements in BS7671 for local isolation, relate to High Voltage discharge lighting.
Not really applicable for domestic kitchens.

You know exactly what this thread is about, so why go on and on about this and that isn't required according to BS7671. Call it whatever you like functional switching, control switching or whatever it doesn't really matter, it makes far more sense to have a means of local isolation/control for built in or under kitchen appliances than not.

If this daft customer doesn't want that sensible facility, then that's fine don't give her any, simples!!

 

[D Skelton]

But the thread IS talking about a means of local isolation/functional isolation!! And as you described the means of achieving this in a domestic kitchen environment, is the correct way of going about it...

A on/off switch on the appliance, whether it incorporates a motor or not, does not fulfill that means....

It fulfils the minimum requirement set down by BS 7671, however the crux of that sentence quire right so would be the word 'minimum'.