Local isolation

[067256]

Hello,
I am looking for clarification on a big kitchen refit that I am quoting for. Lots of built in appliances and the very fussy customer is against local isolation above work tops, in cupboards etc...
On the other side of the kitchen wall is the garage. Can I place all isolation switches in there or could this be an 'accessibility' issue?
Thank-you

 

[D Skelton]

There is no requirement to provide isolation for fixed electric motors, in BS7671

You're right, there isn't. There is however a requirement for readily accessible switching off. Most appliances come with on/off switches, but those that don't, if integrated and fixed, a switch or fused spur local to the appliance would be one way of satisfying this regulation.

Facts aside for a moment however. In my opinion, you'd be a moron not to fit some means of readily accessible switching off or isolation, in addition to any integral switching, particularly to fitted appliances. In a kitchen there is nothing worse in my eyes than a spark who's installed a socket on the wall behind the fitted washing machine for it to plug in to.

 

[Deleted member 26818]

To me, this thread is about getting people to think about what it is they install and why?

 

[wildgoose]

Page 61//Section 5.2.2:
IEE Electricians Guide To Building Regulations (17th edition) - Location of accessories in kitchens.

"Appliances built into kitchen furniture (integrated appliances), should be connected to a socket outlet or fused connection unit that is readily accessible when the appliance is in place and in normal use or supplied from a socket outlet or other connecting device controlled by a readily accessible double pole switch or fused connection unit".


This is a building regulation and is for safety purposes in the event of isolation for servicing of the appliance or for emergency switchoff. If a fire occurred at the back of the appliance and it could not be quickly switched off by a logically placed switch, then what would the insurance say? If a man came to fix the washing machine and has to disassemble the appliance, then he should be able to locally isolate without the need to power down the socket circuitry all day.

This regulation is in place for the customers safety. If a contractor chooses to ignore building regs because of the present house owners whim, then that contractor is taking a risk for which he is liable if any subsequent problems occur.

End of!!

 

[Deleted member 26818]

lol.
Isolation is provided at the CU.
It would be nice if there was an actual refrence to the specific Building Regulation which requires local isolation.
Rather than a quote from an out of date guide.

 

[Engineer54]

lol.
Isolation is provided at the CU.
It would be nice if there was an actual refrence to the specific Building Regulation which requires local isolation.
Rather than a quote from an out of date guide.

So tell us, what you provide for built in kitchen appliances on Your Domestic kitchen jobs/refurbs??

 

[Deleted member 26818]

I recently worked on a kitchen that had glass splashbacks.
No accessories above the work surface at all.
Socket-outlets pull up out of the work surface.
Every thing else hidden in cupboards under the work surface.

A friend of mine lives in a LA house.
They recently had the kitchen refurbished.
Everything is on one wall, including sink, gas cooker and two windows.
There's probably room for 4 double sockets.
Can't fit anything below the windows, no room, obviously have to miss the sink and cooker.
An SFCU has been provided for a washing machine, another for a tumble dryer, another for an extract fan, and of course there's a cooker switch.
This leaves enough room for two double sockets, one of which cannot now be removed as they managed to cover one end when they boxed in some pipes.

The CU is in an old larder cupboard on the other side of the room from the work top.

 

[Engineer54]

They are both rather convenient examples for you to put forward!! ...lol!!

However we have a section of smoked glass splashback in our VIP/Senior staff accommodation block kitchens but they will have the wall accessory points cut out before installation. Personally i think glass splashbacks are a bad idea, they are going to be prone to accidental damage over the years...
As for the worktop pop-up extension sockets, ...another bad idea for a kitchen worktop installation.

So back to the main point, are you saying that you don't as rule supply either grid switch/20A switch/SFCU isolation above kitchen worktops??

 

[Deleted member 26818]

No, as a rule, I install whatever the client desires.
I have done both the SFCU above the work top, and the grid switch.

 

[Tidy Max]

I am currently doing a large extension which has fitted cabinets on one wall (including 2 ovens and fridge freezer) and a large island that has hot tap, waste disposal, pop up socket bank. I have opted for a grid switch fitted into one of the cabinets. All outlets are on unswitched sockets (apart from the extractor fan which is fused at the grid switch).

Oh an there is an induction hob in the island but that is fed through a 45A isolator also fitted next to the grid switch!

The ovens are on plug tops but i am wiring those into flex outlets each fed with its own 20A radial.

I always opt for some method of local isolation!

 

[shanky887614]

You're right, there isn't. There is however a requirement for readily accessible switching off. Most appliances come with on/off switches, but those that don't, if integrated and fixed, a switch or fused spur local to the appliance would be one way of satisfying this regulation.

Facts aside for a moment however. In my opinion, you'd be a moron not to fit some means of readily accessible switching off or isolation, in addition to any integral switching, particularly to fitted appliances. In a kitchen there is nothing worse in my eyes than a spark who's installed a socket on the wall behind the fitted washing machine for it to plug in to.

whats wrong with having a socket fed from an fcu/switch above?

 

[Deleted member 26818]

You would have two 13a fuses in line, no discrimination.

 

[D Skelton]

whats wrong with having a socket fed from an fcu/switch above?

As Spin says above. Also, because if the appliance is fitted, the wiring behind is inaccessible (to a point), therefore any connection needs to be maintenance free. Furthermore, what happens if the fuse goes in a plug behind a fitted appliance? A lot of work right there to replace it don't you think.

Lop the plug of, wago the connection behind a flex outlet plate, place the fuse in an easily accessible location, preferably in a FCU or grid that kills two birds with one stone by also allowing a readily accessible means of switching off the aforementioned appliance.

 

[shanky887614]

As Spin says above. Also, because if the appliance is fitted, the wiring behind is inaccessible (to a point), therefore any connection needs to be maintenance free. Furthermore, what happens if the fuse goes in a plug behind a fitted appliance? A lot of work right there to replace it don't you think.

Lop the plug of, wago the connection behind a flex outlet plate, place the fuse in an easily accessible location, preferably in a FCU or grid that kills two birds with one stone by also allowing a readily accessible means of switching off the aforementioned appliance.

i would but not all customers like it if you chop the plug off the appliance.

usually use flex outlet plate myself but if the customer doesnt want it then you cant force them to have it.

its more difficult if there is a problem but its not unsafe

 

[D Skelton]

i would but not all customers like it if you chop the plug off the appliance.

usually use flex outlet plate myself but if the customer doesnt want it then you cant force them to have it.

its more difficult if there is a problem but its not unsafe

True, then they are well within their rights to find someone else! Lol